Oh 7.
Ok cool.

Thanks.
​End of blog.

I think this is from my Patreon welcome video - I found it in my downloads.
Patreon is coming in due course - I'm just out buying more big girl pants because I'm out ok?

So today I am writing a letter to those facing job rejections or multiple rejections in general.
Because we gotta do this portal thing where we go towards the pain - transmute it - and come out stronger.
And man are we gonna be so hench at the end of this.

I am also desperately trying to make sure I have a good balance on my blog of helpfulness and positivity amongst the more 'rant' leaning posts. This is not meant to be a diary. I want to help lift people back up and get us on a call to adventure together (CTA alternative - thanks to Andy J Pizza - his podcast is *chefs kiss*).

Today I've been talking with a fellow dear friend as we discussed 

So here is my love letter to you all who are searching and who are getting nopes, no's, nadas and no ways.
It's also to myself - let's be honest.

I see you in your rage fuelled flop on the sofa - flipping like a salmon between zero motivation and enough frustration to drag the titanic back up.

I don't know how long the search has been for you so far.
A month?
6 months?
A year?
Waiting to hear back is agony I know.
​Trying to do more than exist when you're playing knock a door run with LinkedIn is very difficult.

But what I want to know is - how are you looking after yourself?
Your brain, your body, your mental health?
Playing carrot on a stick does an absolute number on your neck.

Who did you last speak to about it all and did they actually listen?
I know you want to pass the job of looking after yourself over but this is the one job no one is applying for in it's full capacity.
Have you been applying for it?
Bad news - it doesn't pay money BUT it does pay off.

When did you last zoom right out and look at the situation as a whole.
Are you ok?
Is there something within your control that might make things a little better?

The best hacks are to make the promise to show up half-arsed, grumpy and not expecting a lot.
A walk will accept you in this capacity.
A friend will.
A good  meal will.
A 5 minute stretch session in your pajamas will.

Just over a year ago (I think) I distinctly remember having a conversation with another nearest and dearest about
Surrendering.
Oooft what a concept.
You mean I let go?!
The person who historically struggles to compartmentalize anything and who's brain loves a loop-de-loop on anything?
We were both in that same boat.

Trying to get to the bottom over and over again about how this process is making you feel and then asking more 'why's' - that's always a therapy tool favourite - "yes, but why?".

I got really annoyed!
But why.
It made me feel out of control.
But why.
Because I didn't know when the answer would come.
But why.
Because I hadn't checked in. (And also cos I'm neurospicy as hell)
But why.
Because I was afraid of rejection.
But why.
Because it makes my brain panic.
But why.
Because it feels like I put all my eggs in one basket!
So look at your other baskets!
​
Do what is in your control (even if it's scary) and then shift your focus onto what you can control.
​
- I took a break mid letter here and came back the next day off the back of another rejection.
Solid in the knowledge that you receive more rejections than you land.

I don't know which area of your skills you're applying in  -
but, keep repeating to yourself over and over that rejection is not an indicator that you are bad at what you do!

I refuse to tell you 'something will come' because that is frustrating as hell.
Instead I again will ask you.
How are you looking after yourself?
Because that is something you have some control over.

I wish you the best in your endeavours.
May the fates align soon.

All my love,
​Zoe.

That is a carrot omg it looks so weird without the orange why did I make it black and white.

Introducing this weeks creative,

Voice over actress and owner of Coopers Cookies.

Caitlin's Social icons:

Listen - Caitlin's voice over work with Great Big Story.

Zoe Davey  
(to Cooper the Dog) Hello, hello, boy, we're holding feet.  - Swoosh- Right? Love that. I'm gonna shake the weird out.

Caitlin S  
That feels good.

Zoe Davey  
It's a completely normal thing to do on a Tuesday, 

Caitlin S  
We were just talking for like an hour. Now that there's a camera 

Zoe Davey    
Secretly recording...
We've got the same eight questions that we're doing with Chloe. I don't know whether to look at the camera now, because I wasn't in the first one, I'm not going to I'm gonna look at you. That's fine. Um, hello. Welcome to your living room. My name's Zoe. What's your name? 

Caitlin S  
My name's Caitlin. 

Zoe Davey 
What do you do? Caitlin?

Caitlin S  
I am a voice actor, and I also sell some baked goods in my spare time. 

Zoe Davey  
They are delicious. What is the name of your baked goods company? 

 Caitlin S 
We are Cooper's cookies.

Zoe Davey 
And who is Cooper?

Caitlin S  
Cooper is my lovely Greyhound that is sleeping just off camera. 

Zoe Davey    
Can he eat any of the cookies? 

Caitlin S  
Absolutely not. 

Zoe Davey   
Can eat any of the ingredients of the cookies?

Caitlin S  
He can have things with flour in it. Baking soda is apparently fine for dogs. I make him a cake on his birthday, and it's the ingredients are just apples, flour, peanut butter, egg and baking soda. 
 
Zoe Davey     
What does baking soda taste like? 

Caitlin S  
Nothing.

Zoe Davey 
Well, I feel like it would be-

Caitlin S  
Pretzels. To me, taste very strongly of baking soda, and they're delicious. Yeah, it's just like that, um, there's ever a baked good with too much of it in it, you know? Okay, because it's very chemical, yeah? 

Zoe Davey  
Like, kind of an almost spicy, 

Caitlin S    
yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah.

Zoe Davey    
Okay, interesting. 

Caitlin S  
My first batch of cupcakes ever tasted like pretzels, because I've got too much.

Zoe Davey  
But now, now they're fantastic, and I love them. And I love them, right? Let's start. Then we're gonna get straight into the questions, what is your favourite project you've ever worked on, and why? And we've said at the start, these questions can be to do with Voice Over acting or Cooper's, whichever or both. Take it away. What's your favourite? Maybe your favourite of each one, have you prepared that in your brain?

Caitlin S  
 I mean, to be fair, with cookies, I wouldn't say 

Zoe Davey  
What's your favourite cookie. Okay, we'll just go with that one. Red Velvet goes down very nicely. 

Caitlin S  
Red Velvet is a fan favourite, and it does very well on the market store,

Zoe Davey  
Because it's right, it's red as well. Yeah, it's delicious.

Caitlin S  
My current favourite. And whenever I do a new flavour, it becomes my new favourite. So my newest flavour is a White Chocolate Espresso. So it's got browned butter, white chocolate chips and espresso powder. So it's like having, like I've been trying to recreate the taste of chocolate I had at Hotel chocolate one time. It was a white chocolate, coffee and hazelnut That sounds nice, truffle, and it was the best thing I've ever eaten. And I've been chasing that high ever since.

Zoe Davey  
I'm salivating little bit, just hearing...

Caitlin S  
I don't know if they sell it anymore, if I just haven't looked for it properly. But it was my favourite thing I've ever had. And so white chocolate, coffee, a little bit of cinnamon or hazelnut is like my favourite flavour combination.

Zoe Davey 
Wow, come at me. Come at me with it. When you finish, what's your favourite voiceover thing you've done that? 

Caitlin S
That one's hard.

Zoe Davey  
Why?

Caitlin S  
Because, like, I like, Okay, I would say my favourite is working with Lego

Zoe Davey  
Okay, 

Caitlin S  
Because, and it's not just one project. I've worked with them for a couple of years now, and I think, yeah, okay, they're my favourite because I've worked with them for a little while. It's the same team every time, I always work with the same director. His name is Remy, 

Caitlin S  
Remy the Rat?

Caitlin S 
He's very much a man, right? I'm sure there's a ratatouille in a Lego set somewhere. 

Caitlin S 
Lego set there must be. 

Caitlin S   
They're always like they're my favourite because it's it's all educational content for kids. Most of it is and it's written so well. The director is always so clear on what we need to accomplish, and it's just a great time. We do it over video calls each time. I have some more coming up in August and October this year, and they're just great to work with, and they keep having me back, which I'm so grateful for. And I get to see the little videos at the end where, and it's all done in Lego, which is, 

Zoe Davey 
Wait, are you know, like a little Lego person?

Caitlin S  
I'm like the narrator guy yet, but we talked about that. Yeah, let me see if I can work that into my contract.

Zoe Davey  
Please do - and a little greyhound!

Caitlin S  
But, yeah, we talk about the environment and climate change, and the one we're working on currently is about how to make places accessible. So if someone say, someone who has a seeing and sight impairment, vision impairment, that's the word. I was like, there's a word, there's a word. Yeah, someone's visually impaired. What about this public park could we do to help them enjoy their experience there? Even better, and it talks about how they can put Braille on the map, and they can put different textured walkways and stuff so people know where they're going 

Zoe Davey  
And that's what Lego do?

Caitlin S  
So it's educational videos to help kids start learning about stuff like that.

Zoe Davey  
That's cool. 

Caitlin S  
And then the idea is they want the kids to get involved. They were like, We need your ideas, because you're a person with great thoughts that should become, you know, things. And yeah, it's encouraging them through play to sort of think about real world, not real world issues, but ways we can make the world better for everyone, from, like, a child's point of view, 

Zoe Davey  
And they have great ideas as well, wild and wacky ones. 

Caitlin S  
Yeah, it's I like Lego did a segment on TV once with it was comedians sat down with kids to, like, build Lego and talk about issues in the world, and their responses were fantastic. But yeah, that's my favourite.

Zoe Davey  
Beautiful, lovely. The second one is still to do with that. What were the biggest challenges that you faced on that project? If there were any?

Caitlin S  
I just say whatever challenges come up, working in voiceover in general, just things like, sometimes you've said a sentence so many times you can't think of any other way to say it, and no one else in the chat can either. But like you all, it's when you know you're not getting it right, but like you've exhausted all other options, but at the same time, you do always get there in the end. So I guess it's just the challenge is, especially with these texts, the challenge was to not make it too pandering to kids to you never want to talk down to them. So it was striking the balance between having enough emoting and undulation in the voice and to make it interesting to listen to and keep the child's attention, but also you don't want to become sing songy, or you don't be Miss Rachel, or you don't want because there are some that are targeted towards older kids too. So, but what's great is when we when we nail it, everyone in the room goes, Yep, that was it. Let's just do that 16 more times. But, yeah, I would say that's maybe the hardest part, but even, but you will come across that, no matter what project you do, you always get there in the end, so.

Zoe Davey
Beautiful. I love that you use the word undulating as well. 

Caitlin S
I don't even know. I knew that word.

Zoe Davey  9:54  
I might shut the window. Yeah, we might die in here. But just in case, I don't know. In case. I can't edit cars out because I only want to hear you. Yeah, that's fair. And for some reason today, the street be my streets. 

Caitlin S  
Normally dead quiet. 

Zoe Davey  
If we get a snoring dog, I see you snoozing. Oh, snooze.

Zoe Davey 
She's back, right. Let's go to question number three. Okay, so this could be a trick question. It's not um, how do you push through on a hard day? 

Caitlin S
It's hard on a hard day. I don't know. I really just have to, like, remember, it's not always going to feel like this. That's the big thing. Is, everything is temporary, right? The good stuff and the bad stuff. So I like to acknowledge that and then move from that place of it's not going to be like this forever. So if you can just carry on, and then if I can take a moment to stop and look at what I'm doing and simplify it, because something's happening, like, I'm very I fall into the trap of, like, making things more complicated than they need to be, because then I'm like, but then I could do this and then, but if I do this, I have to do this, and then I have to do and that's where I think I you know, I don't help myself, because then you get frustrated, and then your energy is up here, and you're just, you get, you know what I mean. So if I can stop and go. Actually, what has to be done? Which do I have to get done in the next hour, next few hours today? Oftentimes I can cut away whatever dumb stuff I was doing and just refocus back in and then sometimes I have to say, You know what? It's not getting done today, and that's okay, yeah. And you have to give yourself a lot of grace. But at the end of the day, would you rather put forward a product that you feel good about, or would you rather rush through something and not be happy with it, and then have to put it out. And then you're like, I know I could have done that better, which sometimes that's not always popular. You have to just do it if it was shit because. And oftentimes, you know, you'll get feedback that was shit, and you'll go, I know that's okay, but yeah, on a really hard day, have more coffee also. I'll be like everything's falling apart. Coffee Break. Let's add caffeine to this fire.

Zoe Davey 
Yeah, I agree with that one. Amazing number four, how do you know when, oh, it goes on nicely? How do you know when it's time to take a break?

Caitlin S 
I thought if I've started cursing at myself, like, I don't want to be too expletive on your channel. 

Zoe Davey  
It's alright. Did you hear Chloe? She's like 'can I swear?' and I'm like 'Absolutely - go ahead'

Caitlin S
It's when I'm like 'fuck this'. I don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to be a voiceover. I don't want to do and I like, crash out. Basically, that's when I know now I shouldn't let it get to that point. But because I'm so much like, I will just put my head down, and if, even if, like, something's upsetting me or whatever, I will just keep going. Because I'll be like, if I can just get through this. But it's never just No, if there's always something else, 

Zoe Davey
Something else is coming.

Caitlin S
And then, yeah, then I'm like, I want to throw my laptop window.

Zoe Davey
So that's like, that's the end of your thermometer. Okay, I'm done. What do you think your mid thermometer is? You know what the warning sign is there to be, like, I should take a break. 

Caitlin S 
It's when I've like, I've like, dropped, if I'm baking, I've dropped something, and I get unreasonably angry. That should be my warning sign of, let's take a moment thanks. Get out of the kitchen because it's hot and you're sweaty and you're not allowed to open the windows because it's against health and safety code, like, go pet your dog, yes, and then wash your hands. And then you can get back to it that, yeah, when something very minor certainly happens and you get so unreasonably fucked off that's the warning sign.

Zoe Davey    
I agree. It's not that I'm baking. But if you're, like, in your kitchen, if you had, 'are you doing these things?' And that's just a picture of you like -swears aggressively at oven- at a cake - if you're doing that, then-

Caitlin S 
 I've done that to my oven. Like. 

Caitlin S
Take a break, because what is it? What is it you're making?

Caitlin S  
A cookie; which is meant to be full of love and enjoy?

Zoe Davey  
They could tell that you're baking the hate in. Imagine.

Caitlin S 
Someone's like this taste, this taste..

Zoe Davey
I'm getting "annoyed". Number five, what made you say yes to the first opportunity that you got? So either or both, whichever.

Caitlin S  
Um voiceover I remember, I guess the first opportunity was from Matt. Matt's my husband, and he was already working as a voiceover artist, and we picked the flat we were in in London because it had a closet that he was like, I'm gonna turn this into I'm gonna get in there. I hadn't seen the apartment, and I just had to trust him that this is going to be really worthwhile. And he was right. It was. It became a major source of income for us both during the pandemic. So we moved in, literally the day that my work in London shut down because of COVID. Yeah, we were like, well, I guess we're here. But a few months before that, Matt had said, I think you'd be really good at voiceover, 

Zoe Davey 
He was right.

Caitlin S 
And at the time, at the time, I had no concept of voiceover beyond video games and audio books, and I do both of those things now, but at the time, I was like, well, I won't be good at that, because I can't do the different accents. I can't do the different funny voices, which you know, Matt can like to a very high degree of skill as well. So that was my only frame of reference. But so when he was like, No, you can there are commercials you can do. There are e learning modules. Like, there's telephone. It's called IVR. Like, if you call someone and you go, Hello, welcome to Google, or whatever.

Zoe Davey
This I was just thinking, because there's so many times that you hear a pre recorded thing that you don't even pay attention to you, like you get on the tube and it's like,

Zoe Davey
Yeah, that's a person. Yes. You get on the light, yeah, although there was a really big scandal with royal Scotland rail. Oh, it's a whole thing. They paid for an AI model of a voice, a Scottish voice actress, to so they paid the company. They took the model from. They did not pay her, and she found out, because She heard herself on the train. Not only that, oh my god, it's bad. It sounds shit. And she's like, Not only have I been snubbed of money, and someone's closed my voice without my permission. Everyone's complaining that I sound shit, and it's not me.

Zoe Davey  
It's like some black mirror stuff. She's on a thing, and you hear your own voice. 

Caitlin S 
And that's what's so hard right now, is there's really no legislation to help her. Equity is trying really hard, but at the end of the day, Scottish rail doesn't think they've done anything wrong because they paid the AI voice model company and the voice model,

Zoe Davey 
They know they've done wrong. They're just not admitting to it. 

Caitlin S  
That's just it. And if, personally, in my opinion, if you saw what you did was wrong, it would say a lot more about your company. If you because she was like, hit me up. If you want me to re record it, you'll have to pay me, obviously, but I will be willing to work with you. They, they should probably take that offer if I want this. But, um, yeah, anyway, the opportunity, what were we talking about

Zoe Davey    
I think it was the first opportunity. So Matt bought a closet. Yeah, you got in it.

Caitlin S  
So that set up the booth in the closet. But he also, for my birthday, paid for me to get some demo reels done, which was honestly the best thing he's ever done for me. Besides, you know,

Zoe Davey   
Marry you.

Caitlin S
Besides that, he which demo reel is basically examples of you doing so I have a commercial one. It's me doing different types of commercials. I'm a narrative one, which is like me doing, there's an audio book at the end. There's like, don't tell the bride an excerpt to see what you would sound like. 

Zoe Davey  
What a programme

Caitlin S  
I loved it. So, yeah, I had, I did those two, and he paid for them, and I worked with a great guy named Nick. He doesn't do them anymore, but I think he still is in the audio production world in general, which is great because he's got a great gift for it. He became very high in demand shortly after that, and his rates went through the roof. But I set up a Fiverr account. I applied to a bunch of voice agencies. And I got my first job through Fiverr in October of 2020, and it was for a company called Fi-serve. I remember this, and they're just a financial company, um, they just needed a short video to have on their website. And I did it, and I sent it to him. And this guy. Was like, You should be charging way more for what you're offering. And that was the moment I was like, Oh, I thought might be good at this. And I'm so serious, it just exploded from there. And it was like, I could, you know, quit my job at the hair salon I was working at, and I felt really aligned with what I was doing for the first time ever. It was fantastic. Like, who knew you could make money doing something you like?!

Zoe Davey 
Talking, just talking about reading and talking.

Caitlin S  
I learned. It's a skill. Like, although sometimes you would think, I don't know how to read based off of my outtakes or that stuff that gets edited out, Matt will leave little notes for me when, if I used to ask Matt, I used to pay Matt to edit my audio books because I was bad at it, and he would leave me nice little notes, like, did you have a stroke?

Zoe Davey    
That is not a 'nice little note'.

Caitlin S   
Or, Oh, I see you were drinking the good wine this evening in places where I need to, needed to go back and edit the voice. But very funny. It's love 

Zoe Davey
That's love. 

Caitlin S  
That is love. 

Zoe Davey  
What about cookies? 

Caitlin S  
Um, I think I've made a bunch of cookies for it was when I make I make cookies for Christmas every year, and I was gluten free for a long time. Sucks. Don't recommend it if you don't have to do it, if you don't have to. But I found a gluten free cookie recipe my almond chocolate and cookies that everyone's obsessed with. And I was like, Oh, I wonder. But at the time, I was like, it would be way too expensive to have to make every cookie gluten free. So I was like, so if people want them, they can just ask me maybe take 10 pounds from them or whatever for parties or whatever. But it was when I was no longer gluten free, like, I had the blood test done and everything. It opened up a whole new world of baking opportunities. And that's when I was like, maybe I could sell cookies. I could give this a go. And, yeah, it's been nice. Like, I think the first so last year was the first year that I did it, and it was fantastic. I've had a lot of support from my friends and family, and I did a bunch of markets and stuff, and I very much lost a lot of money doing it sometimes, but the first year in business doing anything, I think, is a learning experience. And I learned, I sort of was able to discern what sort of events are worth my time. Yeah, how to prioritize ingredients, for example, and where I get them, when to bulk buy, when not to bulk buy. But also, like the first year in business, there's a lot of upfront costs, like the public liability insurance. So my whole market stall set up, um, printing business cards and stuff. But this year, I'm much more focused on scaling it back, supplying to like people local to us, to like the Berliner, and then with Lucy's coffee stall that's coming up and doing markets that I am now a regular at, and I have regulars come see me, and it's so satisfying. There's this one gentleman that comes and buys my shortbread at the I uh, at the my god, I'm there every month. I can't remember name, but there's a market up in Derby. You went, Oh, it's the one you and Harriet came to visit Alfreton. 

Zoe Davey  
Alfreton.

Caitlin S
 I was like, it's not Alberton, alphyston, Alfreton. And he's there every market, bright and early, ready for that shortbread. It makes me so happy.

Zoe Davey
We love Shortbread Man.

Caitlin S  
But yeah, so kind of long story short, I could eat gluten again. That was when I knew

Zoe Davey 
And life just took off after that

Zoe Davey 
Beautiful right? What do you think? This is my favourite one. What do you think little you would say about the work that you're doing now?

Caitlin S   
Oh, she would think it was cool, especially so like, when I was little, I was doing drama and theatre and stuff. Since I was like, eight, nine, I would think she would think it was cool. So I still got to do that, but I didn't have to leave my house. I could still tell stories and like, be creative and stuff without having to go anywhere. Sometimes I do, obviously, but the cookie thing. Like, I was always, like, obsessed with learning how to make things, to the point where, like, I was trying to learn how to cook, or not even cook, I was just putting things together, and I thought it would make something nice. I mixed orange juice and milk once, because I thought it would taste like an orange creamsicle popsicle, no? Like, why not?

Caitlin S  
It's baking powder, right?

Caitlin S    
Like, thankfully, eventually, my aunt Denise taught me. She was like, here's something called a recipe, and we're gonna follow this out.

Caitlin S  
Thank you Denise.

Caitlin S 
 So, yeah, to think that I used to bring cupcakes to school. And whenever it was Anyone's birthday, I would get their request for what flavour they wanted. And a cupcake

Zoe Davey   
This is so you know, it is me now, which is all those cookies to Amy's Hen Do.

Caitlin S  
I just because I, like, I can't believe I'm making any money off of it, because it's something I like doing. It doesn't feel like work. Sometimes it does when I'm prepping for a market and like, it takes, I've gotten to a good system now where I can prep the dough up to three days ahead of time, because I now I have a separate business fridge thanks to my wonderful husband, who saw it on the street and said, That's ours.

Zoe Davey  
It's been cleaned thoroughly. 

Caitlin S  
To be honest, it was in pretty good condition. It was from our neighbour down the street. He Matt saw him getting rid of it, and he was like, Is that mine? I'll help you carry it into your house. And I'm like, great,

Zoe Davey    
He's a little Scavenger. 

Caitlin S  
Yeah, I have a system now that is more helpful, so I'm not spending 12 hours in my sweltering kitchen. I can get it down to about three now that's That's amazing, which it involves, like, prepping the dough over the course of the days leading up to it and then baking it all the day before, so that it's packed and ready to go. But even just that is so much more helpful, because then I can take stuff in and out of the oven and be prepping other things, like getting the stall ready and stuff. But yeah, I think little me would think it's pretty cool. 

Zoe Davey
I love that. What an amazing answer I wasn't expecting that. Um, number seven, what do you wish more people knew about the process behind your work

Caitlin S   
For baking?

Zoe Davey   
What you've just talked about.

Zoe Davey    
The amount, it's the amount of time that goes into it in prep. But also, because I have people come up to my stall and go, Oh, I made cookies with my kids. And I'm like, That's so great. I'm I'm really happy for you, like, you should keep doing that, but also that it's the same thing. And I'm like, Yeah, at the very basic idea of it, it is the same thing, and you're doing it because everyone bakes with their not everyone, but people bake with their kids as a fun activity to have something yummy at the end. It's an experience to share with people, but when they use that as a reason to justify not buying something from my stall, it's 

Zoe Davey   
Like, do you hit them with that? And I've had a person come around my house and assess my entire kitchen  for cleanliness.

Caitlin S 
Right?! But I don't have boogers in my cookies.

Zoe Davey  
Made with love too, but without the snot.

Caitlin S 
Without the children getting their hands in there. But it's just like I am happy for you, but if you think that your pre made cookie dough mix is going to taste the same as what I make, which, to be honest, that's why I started doing cookies, because cookies here in the UK, no offense, are very much one thing, and I prefer so cookie some people, everyone has different preferences, and my idea was to make cookies that I like because I didn't see them anywhere. For me, when you get the really massive ones that are trendy right now, in order to have them keep their height, people freeze them, and then after a certain point, you can do that with great results. But at a certain point it really starts to go dry and it's crumbly, which is fine. It's all preference. It's just not why preference? And the ones that you can get for a pound from Asda, I love them. They're great. But again, they're not soft. They're very much chewy, which is great, a great texture, and I love it. But I really wanted the types of cookies that I make that are a reasonable size, a reasonable amount of fillings, and you can actually taste what's in it like it's not the massive cookie pies that are part brownie, part cookie, part Malteser cake type thing, and I wanted them to taste like someone I cared about making them for you.

Zoe Davey  
And they do!

Which I really hope so even to the point where I recently experimented with using cheaper ingredients and it worked and they tasted fine

Zoe Davey  
But you don't want fine.

Caitlin S 
I don't want fine; I don't feel good about selling something that I think is just fine so even though it costs more. I want to stick to the ingredients that I know work give me consistent results and yield a better end product. Because I want it to taste like someone has put thought into what they are eating, even if it's not calorie friendly, is not sugar friendly.

Zoe Davey  
That's not why I'm buying a cookie. I'm buying a cookie for the experience!

Caitlin S   
You'd be surprised. I had a woman go, Oh, are these organic. And I just was like, I'd be charging six pounds of cookie if they were organic, you know what I mean. But yeah, I wish people would realize there is a level of difference between I'm sure some people do go buy the pre made cookie mixes and try to sell them, and I wish them great success. But, yeah, I think that's the main difference.

Zoe Davey    
Well, that's your unique point, isn't it? It's like, you're putting what you love out into the world. And there are other people who love that too, and they're gonna find it and be like, yeah, this is just like I want!

Caitlin S   
And it's like, can you buy short growth from the shop? Yes.

Zoe Davey  
Yeah. But do you have a personal connection with the person who's selling it, who you turn up to the market stalls to get that shortbread, right? No,

Caitlin S  
I've been really looking into what else I can sell on the stall. And I really want to start doing jams and preserves and stuff, which there is, like a level of preservation I need to keep in mind, like I might need to get, like, a mini fridge or something, but

Zoe Davey  
Get Matt out in the street.

Caitlin S    
He's, you give him a mission. He's like, bet they'll be on Facebook marketplace for it'll take him two days. Yeah. But so I was thinking, like, no one like, you can buy strawberry jam from the shop. Then I was like, yes, you can,

Zoe Davey 
People buy it for the story,

Caitlin S  
Right? But also people, the type of person that wants to buy fresh jam cares that it was made by a person in their kitchen using fresh ingredients and using minimal ingredients. There's a big push for that at the moment. It's like, yeah, they people want things, and it's also convenient. That means that person didn't have to spend three hours making jam, they can just buy mine. So, yeah, with Voice Over, I do wish people knew that. I don't know it's hard with, like, the rise of AI voice and stuff, because that very much is trying to say you are like a robot could do your job, yeah? And it's like, yeah, they can. But we're seeing that people don't want it, 

Zoe Davey  
No.

Caitlin S  
And the argument that I've heard is a row, robot can make sounds that sounds like the words of your script, and they can copy a cadence that it's copying from a real person, but you will never be able to replicate. Every person has their own point of view. They've lived their own life. They have their own perspective on things, which means every person that reads a script is going to come at it totally differently. And that's what's special, is you've lived a whole life up to this point that will inform how you interpret a piece of text, even if I'm selling. One of my favorite clients is a sex toy brand. They're fantastic. I love working with them, and I like them because they make sex like a very it's not taboo. It's not like this spicy thing. It is very much just like a like the neutrality of like a Siri type. It's it's very much just like a normalized this is our product. This is how you use it. Their tagline. The tagline is, we wish you lots of love and happy masturbation.

Zoe Davey 
You just said to yourself 10 years ago, and like drama school, you're gonna do this, what would you have said?!

Caitlin S  
But yeah, that's, I guess that's my point. Is a robot could say your script, but how do you care about other people caring about your product? Because the my brain just switches off when I hear a fake voice.

Zoe Davey  
You can tell and even if you can't, and then you find out, you feel like you've been had, and you're like, hmm. You get this icky feeling.

Caitlin S 
And that's the thing, is, there's a time and place for everything, including AI voices, but I don't know if you really and a lot of like clients I speak to their their thing is they care. They want people to care about their brand, because that's how they make money. 

Zoe Davey  
And like, you've spoken about Lego and this sex toy brand, and like, the relationships you're having on a business to business level, you're building that with another person to, like, I don't know that's just really cool. And like, with AI, if they'd have decided to go with that instead, they wouldn't have that, right? And. You wouldn't be able to have that like rapport and new ideas from a human perspective. I don't know

Caitlin S   
That's just it. And you're so right. The direct ability of AI voices is so limited because you can go, No, put the emphasis on this word, but then it's like, you're right. You're not having that. There are so many times I'm in a live session with someone and they can't articulate exactly what they're trying to say to give me direction, but I know what they're saying, yes. And it's because we have that shared, lived experience that I'm like, I know exactly

Zoe Davey  
What you're saying. You're having an unspoken conversation. Yeah, yeah. And it's like,

Caitlin S  
You can't do that with robots. I really hope we don't get to the point where I can have an unspoken conversation with the robot. Conversation with a robot. I'm not interested.

Zoe Davey  
Yeah. Can you believe we made it to the end question? It's gonna take me about eight hours to download it. But it'll be worth it! We didn't have to do a reading, right? -to Cooper - Excuse you sir, big strange pose at the end, I'll turn the camera around. Is there a moment in your creative journey that changed everything? If there isn't, that's okay too,

Caitlin S  
You know what? Because I, when I was reading these questions, this was the one that I had an answer for first, 

Zoe Davey 
Nice and goosebumps. 

Caitlin S   
It was when I realized everyone is making everything up, right? Everyone pulling stuff out of their ass, money like terms they we are all making it up as we go along. 

Zoe Davey  
Amazing answer

Caitlin S  
There, especially in terms of money, there are industry guidelines for where you might feel like, yeah, there is an accepted industry guideline for what you might charge for a certain project. But even that, you don't have to it just is there to give you a good idea of what the going rate is, but even within that is your own personal well, how what do I How much money do I need to make off of this to feel it was a worthwhile project to take on, to take up my time, and because we're all trading time for money, yes, so you have to be really okay with the amount of money you're receiving for the time you're giving up. And that number will be different for everybody. But, and of course, like it's not always been like, super straightforward, things fluctuate. The economy fluctuates. What people are willing to pay fluctuates, but as long as you can say to yourself, I'm I'm getting paid for my unique perspective and my skill set, and I'm willing to give up this much of my time for this much money, as long as you're comfortable with that. That's the right number like, and of course, you, I think you need to be working within an industry long enough to have that sense of because I could go in that I could quote everyone $5 million for every project, and that feels great. But a lot of clients go no no. So I think you get a sense of, like, knowing, yeah, because it's also, like I said, everything's made up. They people that ask you for your quote don't know what you're gonna say. 

Zoe Davey 
They might have a number in mind. 

Caitlin S   
They might have a number in mind.

Zoe Davey    
But they are too making that number up!

Caitlin S   
Exactly 

Caitlin S 
somebody else's made their number? Yep, everything's made up. In the moment I realized that everyone is faking it till they make it, I relaxed a lot, yeah, because I used to put so much pressure on myself through like, I have to know what to do. I have to know. 

Zoe Davey  
But no, the thing is, no one is gonna tell you. No one's gonna tell you, especially when you work for yourself. 

Caitlin S  
That's just it. And like, I've had to get good to get good, I'm gonna get good. I've had to get good at not knowing, at making best guesstimates, at doing the best that I can with the information I have. And then when I get new information, I can do better, or I can change what I'm doing, or whatever. But that was a very freeing moment

Zoe Davey  
Is that was, is that mainly with the voiceover stuff, then even baking like?

Caitlin S  
That's why I lost money at one point. 

Zoe Davey  
You were putting orange and milk together. Now... you're putting other stuff together but it works now!

Caitlin S  
There's more ingredients 

Zoe Davey 
Because there was a little bit of a recipe, but you don't have to follow it, right, beautiful.

Caitlin S 
So the thing with baking is there are overhead costs that you have to you should know a lot before you start charging people. And that's why I lost money in my first year, because I was used to making numbers up. So. That was your charging. But if you can get, if you're going into something like that, if you can get someone who knows about overhead and numbers in that sense, and can tell you what you should be charging to make your cost worth it, please do so find them. You can just vibe it out like I did, but just be prepared. You're gonna lose money. But yeah, even that, once you hit that threshold of, okay, this is the number that I need to be charging to make any money to go up from there, you make it up. You just like, and then obviously people then scale up. They can afford new machinery and new premises and whatever, whatever. But that's not my goal with um cookies. My mom keeps saying, oh, you should open your own like, bake shop. Like, no, because bakers get up at 3am and bake friends. 

Zoe Davey  
You said, No, you'll be happy that you can work from home,

Caitlin S  
And I can read my books and walk my dog and do whatever I want, but Yeah,

Zoe Davey  
Beautiful. What a wonderful interview. Thank you. Thanks for saying yeah. Thanks for having a little chat. It was nice, beautiful, lovely answers, where can, where can people find you? Where can they track you down?

Caitlin S  
In my house doing nothing

Zoe Davey  
No, don't come and find her in our house. This is where you can find her instead.

Caitlin S    
For voiceover, I have a website. CaitlinSloanvo.com that's VO, as in voiceover. I will put it in the description. Or if you want some cookies, Cooper's Cookies is on Facebook. There's, which I've learned, there's a lot of Cooper's cookies on Facebook.

Zoe Davey   
Not this Cooper's cookies. 

Caitlin S  
We're the one. We've got the blue logo that says Cooper's cookies.

Zoe Davey  
Beautiful. Thank you. Now we're gonna show you him, because the man who didn't wanna, he didn't want to join in during but here he is. 

Caitlin S 
He's dreaming.

Zoe Davey 
He's fully asleep, fully conked out. Thank you so much for watching 42 minutes. Okay, we're gonna press the button and pray now that it worked. 

Committing to that 'desired' aesthetic of burning the candle at both ends to live and die for your work-
​gets you burnt twice.
​
Me, I said that staring at you who is working too hard.

"I decided to become an artist when I was about your age. I liked to draw so much, I almost hated to go to bed. And then one day, all of a sudden, I couldn't draw anything. Everything I drew, I didn't like. I realized that my art up to then was a copy of someone else, things I had seen somewhere. I decided I had to discover my own style. It's still difficult. But then, the results...They seem to be a little better than before."
​
- Ursula explaining her picture to Kiki

Also Studio Ghibli - incredible.
The best kind of film to put to on to slow the day down and land somewhere beautiful.

Burning the candle at both fuckin ends.
I literally can't.
​My body can't cope with it anymore.
I remember the moment I realised I couldn't 'do it like I used to' - I mean, there's been a few - but one in particular was midway through the last set design I did. I was laid up on the sofa and all my joints weren't working properly and I was trying to get ready for another day of hard physical labour and my Dad caught me and told me to lay back down.
I would not have finished that last set without the help of family at all.

I force myself to clock off.
Take breaks.
​Even though I love what I'm doing.

This is not a bid to say
Stop having fun
Stop being spontaneous
Stop being young
Stop anything joyful - or whatever else your brain is trying to read instead.

It's me saying to anybody who might need to hear it:
You have permission to slow down.
Slow sustainable growth beats burn out every, single time.

A dichotomy.

Painting a mural at my friends parents house.
One of them just had a baby, the other lives in London and the other is getting married soon.

In 2013 I ran ZDAAP from Facebook ^ these were my first few profile pictures.

I made my first Instagram post when my friend interviewed me about making art in 2015.

I made art for people - word of mouth mostly and I didn't think much more about it.

Social media always had the insipid ability to warp what we really need.
As a creative on the internet it is really hard not to equate views or likes with quality or reason.
It's hard to separate effort and pride with reception.
And it's super hard to keep leaning into gratitude on days where it does indeed feel like shouting into the void.
​
I would love to be a post it and leave it person.
It's something I'm aiming towards.
I know that my adhd brain craves connection and my phone feels the easiest way to do this.
​So finding the balance is something I'm working on a lot.

My current schedule is more than enough for posting.
I don't claim to know enough about insights and SEO and analytics - but I'm trying!
I really didn't think about it at all 12 years ago.

But the landscape was completely different.
It wasn't a sea of adverts tailored to exactly what your subconscious thinks it wants.
It was just you and friends and the people who liked your page.
A 'doom scroll' ended.
​
It ended.

It said 'done for the day - all caught up" - and it meant it.
There was no reels or stories or threads or million different buttons to understand on Facebook.
I would say this isn't a rant (unless you want to read it as such) - it's a musing.

It's been in my drafts a while because I'm still sorting out my thoughts on it.
But I figure someone might appreciate the unpolished state of things.

That's my best analogy for it.
Hustling and bustling through the reams of content.
Trying to find space on the platform.
Yet when you step on board there's this eerie feeling.
Lonely on the empty tube.
So you better be happy in your own company.

Sometimes someone is on board with you for a stop or two.
That's feel nice.
Keeps you going.

Can you tell I really don't enjoy London haha.

Most of my sales and opportunities still come from face to face interactions.
Socials in between - sure - it's all part of the picture.
But you'll never beat the OG connections.

Stop giving social media the power it wants.
Doesn't own you.
Never did.

You could create a perfectly good life without it.
You hold the power.
Keep reminding yourself.
Get it a little scared you'll delete it and never look back.
It's a tool to use.
That's all.​

To share.
To sell.
​To support.
To help people feel seen.
To educate.
To support myself financially using a skill I adore.
I would do this whether people were watching or not.

Because I don't hate it.
I think in it's essence it's amazing.
Used right it keeps us connected and supported and entertained.

It's just a really interesting platform for selling art services on.
Because art services are feeling based services.
​Everyone who pours part of themselves into something and wants to share it deserves to be rewarded.

Why are you sad that no one liked your post little one?
Does it feel like no one wants to play your game?
Why are you mad that no one felt brave enough to comment older one?
Does it feel like no one is listening?

They are.
Sometimes they're silent.
Sometimes they're busy.
Sometimes you're not for them.

Keep turning to the ride or dies.
​That's who you're talking to.