So, today we celebrate the wonderful
​

Social links:

Chloe at work on the 'Twilight' mural.

Zoe Davey  0:00  
Hi, welcome to the first video of this type on this channel. It is linked to a blog. And if you've been following my creative journey recently, you'll know that I've been making a blog every single Friday, and recently, I reached out to my mailing list because I knew there's some wonderful creative people on there that I wanted to hear from, and figure that other people might want to hear from too. And and someone replied, It was Chloe, and I was so pleased, and I'll always be so pleased and thankful for her being the first interviewee. Enjoy the interview. It's long. We go off on tangents, but I love to listen to that kind of stuff where creatives talk to other creatives. They go off on tangents, and they don't apologize for it. I've done the best I can with the audio. It will get better in time, but for now, is what it is. It's scrappy. I've done the best I can with it. I've really enjoyed this interview. We talk about what you tell her younger self about what she's doing now, we talk about what her favourite projects were, and why they were her favourite projects, and how she pushes through on the really difficult times. It's heart-warming, it's wonderful, and I hope you really enjoy it. And now there's just one more message from me before we carry on. So it turns out, if you screen record a phone call, it doesn't necessarily record the audio. So this is the video of me apologizing for not being in the corner of the screen because I turned my camera off by accident and the audio doesn't work. So we live and we learn. That's what I'm going to say.

We'll get better from our mistakes.

Chloe C  1:32  
Lady, right. We are going to make an attempt at an introduction. Okay, this is the first one of these, my honoured guest, Chloe Chicarelli, here she is all the way from America. Thank you for being the first one. Thank you for being

Always down to be your test guinea pig, whatever you need. I love this. This is so awesome, amazing.

Zoe Davey  2:01  
Um, we've basically got how many questions are we doing today? We are doing eight whole questions. But the amount of me and you like to talk this is going to be, like, six hours long. So buckle in, everyone.

Chloe C  2:14  
Shut me up if I start yapping.

Zoe Davey  2:19  
No that's the point. Is, if I'm yapping too much. I need to be reined in, because I'm the one that's supposed to ask the questions and then shut up.

Chloe C  2:26  
That's fine. I am definitely more of the listener in a relationship than us than the talker. So...

Zoe Davey  2:32  
Well, it's your turn to have the spotlight put on you. I don't know how you feel about that. Try well, for anybody who doesn't know Chloe, she is a mural artist and general creative person, I will link her stuff on her website, because it looks amazing. My favorite piece, I think that you've done, I've written it down here so I didn't forget was the Downtown Box. Like it's a huge side of the building with the birds in it, and they're like the Heron, yep. It's amazing. That's really nice colors. And that's the picture that I'm going to put in there. 

Chloe C  3:10  
A little segue into question one. Then, fantastic.

Zoe Davey  3:15  
I didn't even plan that. That's perfect. Let's what is question one. Question one is, what's your favourite project you've ever worked on? And why? 

Chloe C  3:23  
Oh, my goodness, crazy. Yeah. So Twilight, that one was called, and it's actually the biggest project that I've done to date. And funnily enough, it was only my second ever mural. So I used to work a nonprofit in downtown Dayton, and I just completed the first one. They just kind of said, Hey, did anybody want to do this mural? Nobody really wanted to paint it. The design had made. So it was already like, ready to go. And I was like, I'll do it.

Zoe Davey  3:59  
That's the dream, there, right? 

Chloe C  4:01  
Like, you're pretty good at this. I'm like, thank you. Like, any other opportunities that you've got, like, thrown my way, I'd absolutely love that. Definitely no money. This was, this was before. This was definitely getting my experience. Yeah. So yeah, the owner just approached me one day, and she was like, Hey, we're going to be doing a really big project. Would you like to be the lead muralist? And like, no hesitation. I was just like, let's go. And then she kind of proceeded to, you know, go. Just explain a little bit more about what that would all entail. It was actually a program with the Montgomery County Juvenile court system. So they it's juvie kids, you know, just under 18, kids who have, you know, maybe kind of done something they shouldn't have. They're in bad situations. It was one of them. Most like humbling things I've ever done. So they have a project called the halo project, which is helping adolescents achieve long term objectives. So it just gave these kids, you know, something to do that kept them out of trouble. A lot of them were, like, really, really good artists, and they just, you know, I'm so happy that they finally had something where they could be themselves. It was a little bit scary. I'm not gonna lie, I had a couple of like, 18, 17 year olds who were like, I'm a run. I'm a run every day. And I'm like, please don't run. I've got so much of the stuff that I have to do with this, but it was such an eye opener. I was the lead muralist on that one, so I kind of really got to understand, like, the inner workings of it all, you know, like, I didn't get too much into the budget side of things, but just kind of like all the working parts and everything that it takes to make something like that go and I just, I loved it. I loved being able to orchestrate stuff, you know, getting out there doing actual work. The design was actually done by a local, famous artist called gay Hilton. So I was just like, super stoked to be doing her work, getting it all done. It was, it was really good. It really could, really cool, really good, really cool. 

Zoe Davey  6:34  
You can see it on your website, and that that side of the building is absolutely massive as well. I think you've got, like, a panel over there and before and after.
I didn't know that they had been painting it with you as well. That's amazing. Like, I mean, to throw you in at the deep end, like, obviously you said yes, not only that, you you're also in charge of these people, making sure that they like, on task, doing their thing. And you nailed it anyway. No wonder it's your favourite.

Chloe C  6:53  
It was definitely stressful. It was literal blood, sweat and tears shed mostly, I was hoping, like heavy equipment and stuff. Yeah, it was a it was one of the most cool learning experiences, as stressful as it was, and lots of egos and personalities and stuff, it was none of that mattered. Like, the moment I had done that, every all the kids were only helping on, like, kind of, like, the block colours and stuff, I just remember there was a little bit of lettering in the bottom left corner, and that was, like, the last thing I was doing. And like, it's so crazy. Like, you start something that's so daunting, and then, like, you have that final brush stroke, and then you're like, Oh, I'm doing it so weird, all of that, all of that stress, and I finally just finished, and you're like, oh, oh, it's happened. I did it.

Zoe Davey  7:57  
It was so good. So, yeah, no, that's an amazing answer. Thank you so much. If this doesn't record, because this is our first time doing this. If this doesn't record, I'll just cry, because that was a wonderful answer, and people need to hear that, because I think it's it's really inspiring to hear the joy that comes out of doing things that aren't necessarily always broadcasted as like, job type. Isn't easy.

Chloe C  8:26  
I mean, there's a couple of things, ;)  but...

-dog barks - sorry, just making sure the dog was fed.

Zoe Davey  8:36  
Important things in life.

Chloe C  8:38  
...is that, yeah, no, I just You just gotta keep going. Just gotta keep pushing. It's really cool, even when things are hard, like, I guess this,

Zoe Davey  8:52  
Maybe then after we piggyback and we go on to Question three, because that would be a perfect segue. It's, How do you push through on a hard day? Okay? And then we can go back, unless you want to do question two?

Chloe C  9:05  
What is Question three?

Zoe Davey  9:10  
Question three is, how do you push through on a hard day when the going gets tough? What? What are your ways of pushing through?

Chloe C  9:18  
Um, so David actually has this quote that he says all the time, and it's really and I want to say this right? I'm going to try and say it, and then I'm going to make sure it's right. What is it? Leave nothing for tomorrow, which leave nothing for tomorrow, which can be done today. Abraham Lincoln, oh, we like that. And I really hold it like quite close to my heart, honestly, as I continue to, like do this and start to, you know, get deeper into this, I'm a solo artist. I. Uh, the work comes out of my hands. Like, yes, there's times where I have assistance and they can do, you know, block colouring and stuff like that. But whatever I don't do today, if I want to be lazy today, I'm going to pay for that tomorrow. Yeah, I and it can really start to become a knock on effect, and that really affects me with burnout. So, yeah, I I am. It's kind of funny, like, I do feel like quite a lazy girl at heart, and it is hard to kind of push through sometimes when all you want to do is just go home and just, like, watch something on Netflix. But I just, I just know that if I don't do it today, it's tomorrow's problem, and then that will be the next day's problem. And it kind of like weirdly pushes me to keep going. It just makes me do that extra, you know, that extra 20 minutes that tomorrow, you know, and 20 minutes every single day you've lost another hour. And then, you know, that's that Friday feeling when I want to actually go home. I've kind of been through that. So I guess it's all about just trying to find the balance, listening, obviously, to your body. And I guess this does actually kind of go into like question four as well. Yes, yes, like that. I'm getting older. My body is not getting younger. I'm trying to get fitter right now. I'm trying to be better about listening to my body, but it really has been a game changer, especially for women. Following your cycle, I think is one of the most important things that you can do, because me, in my luteal phase, all I want to do is scream and cry. I don't want to be understanding to be I don't want to be dealing with bugs. I don't want to, you know, think no matter what industry you're in, I definitely think women should do that, because we are absolutely beating ourselves raw trying to keep up with men who have cortisol levels that get reset every 24 hours. We're just different creatures. And I just, I wish that every woman would give themselves the grace that I'm a bit of a hypocrite. I don't always do this. I sometimes have headlines, you know, I sometimes have to push a little bit harder. But if I could preach from the mountain tops, listen to your body. Listen to when you need rest, listen to what hurts and what you can do. You know it's like, oh yes, self care. It's just some face masks that's put some conditioning treatment on our hair. It's so much deeper than that. It's listening then checking in with yourself. Every single day, I find myself often, and more often than not, like, in a bad mood and trying to figure out the the core of that is it my body saying, oh, I need, I need to rest. Oh, my body's like, irritated, like, everything that you need is within you. I feel like, and maybe I sound like a crazy, crazy lady at this point, but like

Zoe Davey  13:01  
I'll join you!

Chloe C  13:03  
Your body knows what it needs. And I am really trying to, like, yesterday, it we had tornado warnings yesterday, and it was crazy. And I just said, okay, my body needs to rest. And I even joke about it. It's my forced relaxation. I sit there, and I will make myself just sit there, and it's like, I just wait for my body to, like, soak in and just appreciate it. I also think there's a lot of like, good with like, meditation and all that kind of stuff as well. But that's a whole 'nother. That's a whole 'nother conversation. I like it, though. Just take care of is that so obviously, yourself, learn how to listen to your body and then actually listen to your body, and then actually do the things that your body kind of needs you to do before everybody else who's up at 5am and doing this and drinking this and doing everything that's so good like Do what makes you happy? Sometimes I'm barely surviving, so

Zoe Davey  14:04  
We're just doing our best.

Perfect. Well, what was, Oh, we're going back to two then what were the biggest challenges you faced on that project? So we kind of covered them going back to the first mural project. But what was the biggest challenge for you? Do you think 

Chloe C  14:24  
Bugs.

Zoe Davey  14:28  
 Bugs?!

Chloe C  14:30  
So many bugs. There's so many spiders, outdoors, outdoors, flying creatures and like, I don't really care for them, but it was just constantly. No, that was that was definitely not ideal, obviously painted in summer, when the lights come on at night, it's 

Zoe Davey  14:58  
Oh,my God. I. Had not even considered that that's wild. I did paint outside for pretty much the first time with acrylics the other day, and there were a few, but I imagine over there, it is a little bit Wilder.

Chloe C  15:13  
I was led over to America. Was not informed about them - horrendous.

Zoe Davey  15:18  
God damn it, David, you didn't inform her?

Amazing. What made you say yes to the first mural or creative or creative opportunity that you did? What made you say yeah?

Chloe C  15:33  
Can I swear?

Zoe Davey  15:34  
Yeah.

Chloe C  15:34  
 Why the fuck not? Yeah?

Zoe Davey  15:38  
 I agree.

Chloe C  15:39  
 I just, I'm, at that point in life, like I'm a take opportunities. I, you know, we get presented with these weird and wild things every day, and some of them can feel scary. Some of them, one right now, yeah, like this is literally to be on podcasts and stuff. And I'm just like, I am not. 

Zoe Davey  16:03  
Well, you clearly are. You're doing some great answers.

Chloe C  16:08  
And if I can do something that benefits other people as well, but women like, it's kind of funny around here late. I mean, there's, there's a lot of artists who have a lot of egos, and that's like a global thing, but just trying to find people who have, like, similar mindsets, and just, we all got to eat. We all want to eat. Why can't we all eat? You know, it's like, I really want to support everybody, and it doesn't have to be like, this petty thing and like so just fucking vibe, and we all have different skill sets. Let's come together. 

Zoe Davey  16:44  
-sings- Yes, collaborate and listen.

Chloe C  16:49  
Yes. Why not? 

Zoe Davey  16:54  
Indeed. 

Number six, we're firing through these. I'm going to check what time we're on. What time are we on? It doesn't tell you we're in the zone. Excellent. What? Where's my I can't read number six. What do you-This is my favorite little question that came up with- what do you think little you as in, like you as I don't know, maybe like 6, 7, 8, would say about the work you do now?

Chloe C  17:22  
You know, I got a little bit like, when I read your questions, I like, a little bit teared. I thought that one, oh, I think she'd just be really happy that she's doing something that's just me. You know, I just feel like we all again, we take these opportunities in life. And I got to a point, you know, had my fancy corporate job, everything was good, but I just wasn't happy. I just wasn't where I thought I wanted to be in life, and I didn't know where I wanted to be. I spent my life just thinking I'd be kind of a bit of just a floater. I've never really had like a secure friendship group. I've got my family and stuff, but I've just always been a bit of a lone wolf, so I knew that whatever I did do, I needed that to kind of fill that little bit that I always felt safe, and I've always felt safe when I'm on my own, because I only have to worry about myself, and that's clearly some therapist talk. 

Zoe Davey  18:25  
I'll make a note of that one down for you.

Chloe C  18:31  
I think she'd be really proud. I didn't, I didn't even know I would live this long. Yeah, think I'd make it, and I keep seeing milestones, and it's it's really cool, and I keep pushing, and I keep making cool stuff, and I keep doing cool stuff, so better not stop now.

Zoe Davey  18:53  
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being really honest with that answer. You could have just said anything, and you gave me your heart.

Chloe C  19:00  
And that was because you said it my whole body -visibly wiping tears-

Zoe Davey  19:05  
Well, that's how you know it's true. That's how you know it's the good stuff. Yeah. So what do you wish more people knew about the process behind your work?

Chloe C  19:19  
Everything?

Just just the care, attention, love, devotion, that I will put into what I do, like I don't. There's not many things unless, like, you're a real prick to me. I'm going to give you my everything. Like you really have to, like, be an asshole to me, for me to, like, start not giving you my fault. Yeah. Wait, what was the question again, my brain just...

Zoe Davey  19:50  
 I think the question was, what do you wish people knew? Yeah, what do you wish more about the process behind it?

Chloe C  19:56  
Yeah, just the work that goes in behind. Scenes, the admin, the putting in every single receipt that I've ever spent on any kind of pain, figuring out how to be a business owner, because this is my first year full time. I still don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm figuring it out every day, and...

Zoe Davey  20:21  
...clearly something's working.

Chloe C  20:24  
I just wish people would give me the support and appreciate artists and the time and effort that does go in, because I will forever wear mug across my forehead. If I could do everything for free, I would, yeah.

Zoe Davey  20:38  
But we can't. We can't eat that way.

Chloe C  20:42  
I could do this, like, just as a philanthropy thing, that would be awesome. Maybe one day, that is where, maybe one day, because I hate talking about money, but we gotta eat.

Zoe Davey  20:53  
We have to eat, we have to pay for houses. We have to put clothes on our bags because we get arrested otherwise, you know? 

Chloe C  21:00  
Yeah, I guess that's the thing. A lot of people come to me and go, Well, I could do that. And I'm like, Well, go on. And then, well, you know, the cost of this, the cost of that, the cost of that, they can't seem to think of all the things like I, I was painting a mural, what, three days ago, and a guy came over. He was a general contractor, and I had four brushes laying on the floor. He was like, why have you got $200 just spilled out on the floor like that? And I went, Oh, you actually understand the value of things. 

Zoe Davey  21:36  
That's really cool, my friend, I saw something in my friend's story the other day that was like someone had asked, like, oh, you're a photographer. Do you just do that for fun or whatever? And then it was like, No, I just go to places with 300 300 Wait, 3000 pounds worth of equipment just hanging off me and try and make friends with toddlers for fun. No, of course, it's my job. But yeah, it's like when someone realizes how either how much time something takes, how much something costs, or how much effort and understanding and trial and error, how many times you failed before you got to that point when they recognize that, oh, that's a good day. That's a nice day. That's almost better than a pat on the back. It's a I see, I see what's going on here.

Chloe C  22:26  
I do. I mean, like, when I do my abstract stuff, a lot of people, that's where you really start to get the oh, well, I could do that. 

Zoe Davey  22:33  
Like, what the pain pouring thing, it looks amazing?!

Chloe C  22:36  
Just abstract work in general. Like, yeah, sometimes stuff only does take me two hours, and, yeah, charge you $1,000 for it, because that's how many times before, years and years and years learning all these different things to get me to that point. And it's just like anything. I just wished artists were kind of treated like general contractors. That's kind of where I feel in the same vein, yeah, yeah. 

Zoe Davey  23:05  
Never questioned a plumber. Never questioned a plumber in my life.

Chloe C  23:09  
Weird, isn't it? I can't believe we've made

Zoe Davey  23:12  
It has come to the last question, but we have, is there a moment in your creative journey that changed everything for you. 

Chloe C  23:23  
I was thinking about really, like trying to think of like something profound,

Zoe Davey  23:32  
It's okay, if there's nothing.

Chloe C  23:35  
I think it's kind of been like a slow burn more than anything. Yeah, I feel like every single little thing that I've done, I mean, I will say that working at the nonprofit, opened up a lot of doors, met a couple of people. I mean, yeah, just definitely, just through the years, just kind of, you know, building it up, building it, building it up. And like, now I'm at a point where, like, I'll go on Facebook every day and somebody's tagged me about a project, and like, I feel like just getting that reputation. And, yeah, you know, it's, I could lose that reputation in one day. I could do something, say something like, you know, cancel culture, like, and as a 90s baby, it can, it can be hard sometimes to find, like, where the wokeness is, and like what I can and can't say. I feel like, since moving to America, I was kind of given a, like, a bit of a second chance. I got to become the person that I know I am without all the past and everybody else's opinions and all that kind of stuff, you know, and it made me realize that I am a good person, and I want to do good in the world. And since that really it's just motivated me to want to do more. And I think within. Motivation comes that, you know, just it tumble. It's a big Tumbleweed of feelings and emotions to it.

Zoe Davey  25:11  
Doesn't have to be a movie moment right?

Chloe C  25:13  
 Sometimes, on and on and on, little meet cute, where everything just kind of went. You're a magical artist. 

Zoe Davey  25:21  
It's now, like, congratulations, but like, it's today, you're a magical artist. 

Chloe C  25:26  
Now, I feel like I've worked really hard over the like, I mean, I went to art school, I did all that good. 

Zoe Davey  25:36  
You did.

Chloe C  25:38  
Everything has just come out to this point where it was supposed to be. And again, I'm floating in a random country, in a random town, and my name's on buildings, and it's just, it's bizarre, but amazing. So yeah, definitely no magic firework moment, just a nice little slow Ember that's growing, and I hope it just keeps growing, because we should I want this to go to glow, glow forever with a because you're glowing right now, because this is so bright, the sun's just come out for the first time.

Zoe Davey  26:15  
Oh my gosh. Um, thank you. Thank you. That's not going to cover it. It's not going to cover it. It's it because, like, you need the people in your life who take a chance, and you take a chance of me all the time, so and now you're doing this for me. A special wish that this recorded properly. Wish with me. Ready? Please, please, please. -Chloe wishes, fingers crossed, on camera-. And then I had the little thing pop up that was like, You need to upgrade if you want to do 10 more minutes worth of speaking. I was like, I think the takeaways from this will be so lovely, because you've been so honest and so just full of joy about it all. And I think that shines through at the end of the day, even though things get really rough and like life is trying. Like, the thing that keeps shining through is that you love doing this stuff, and you love making beautiful things for people. And like, if you can keep doing that, then you're gonna pretty happy be

Chloe C  27:17  
I wanna, I want people to smile. Like, I mean, somebody almost crashed the car yesterday, and a policeman went like the wrong way yesterday, just because they're looking at my work and I that's one thing of a town where I don't think people understand general laws, but that's okay.

Zoe Davey  27:39  
I mean, that's a high compliment

Chloe C  27:41  
Oh God, Ohio now.

Zoe Davey  27:44  
So I think we'll carry on. Go, go.

Chloe C  27:50  
You inspire me again. The fact that you you have shown that you know, just because it doesn't always go the way you want it to the first time. Like tenacity, Zoe is it's all inspiring. It really we're doing this. Like, I just, we all have like things that we can, like, look up to, and like, just, I don't know, I love your style. I love how you can just bash it out and not overthink stuff, like everything that like, I wished I could do, like you just do it. You don't worry. You just do how do

Zoe Davey  28:28  
Oh how do you a how do you know I don't worry? You interview me one day. I'll tell you!

Chloe C  28:34  
You finished a painting. Zoe, 

Zoe Davey  28:37  
Oh, that is true.

Chloe C  28:38  
 I have ones, but I can finish them.

Zoe Davey  28:41  
But I'll get on you after we finish this, this interview, in a second, I'll harass you about finishing some art. How about that?

Chloe C  28:47  
Yeah, I mean, I'm getting my studio space set up right now, so I'm kind of, I can't wait to see that journey and where that all goes and my canvases have gone so like that's happening in the next you fully, fully talked, amazing, right? 

Zoe Davey  29:04  
Where can people find you if they don't know who you are or they don't already follow you? 

Chloe C  29:08  
They can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Chloe Chicarelli Instagram at, just at, it's just because I sometimes put stuff on Tiktok. I am not the biggest social media girl.

Zoe Davey  29:25  
Want to we'll get there. You're a great example of someone who is bossing it without having to completely follow the norm. So that's okay. If there's people out there who are like, I don't know it, you're in that boat too, and you're still smashing it. 

Chloe C  29:41  
So okay, as the ex social media manager, I don't want to, I don't want to be there. And if you mural, I am International, you can go on my website, submit request, www.chloechicarelli.com,

Zoe Davey  29:57  
Oh my gosh. I want to see where this leads. I'm very curious. Trying to edit like that. All right, we're gonna end it now. Thank you for listening to everyone. Bye.

Recently I was at a life drawing 'event'.
Ok, it was a Hen Do.
But I do regularly go to life drawing classes when I can.

And the model was offering out charcoal to sketch with.
A 'proper art tool' in my mind.
The pressure was on all of a sudden.
Make something good - it's a 'proper' tool.

So I turned around and I picked up a grey felt tip pen and immediately felt a lot calmer.
Felt tips are for making a mess.
Felt tips are for expression.
Felt tips ask for bold moves but without the judgement.

I am aware this is slightly ridiculous.
You could think the exact same way about charcoal.

I fully recommend changing up your tools to see what clicks.
For years I painted in watercolour and never really anything else.
I tried acrylic and I loved the depth of colours it gave and the fast drying (I'm a little impatient - adhd).

Sketching in HB pencils felt awful.
I was aiming for a finished line art straight away - it took too long to make marks and most importantly - I could erase it.
Meaning I would get stuck in this cycle of make a mark - rub it out.
Not learning to trust what I was drawing or forgive myself for mistakes.

But felt tips - that's for some big boy moves.
And.
It's seen as a 'kids' art tool.
Somehow - in my head, it takes the pressure off.

I use felt tips a lot in my digital line art - I love the textures it brings both in the sketch and line art.
I never really got on with digital pens - couldn't find a flow.
So my digital work is like a collage of hand-drawn parts and Photoshop.

Look, I'm all one for some cool insight.
But I am aware of how much a stretch "daily yoga helped me start my business" sounds.

Up there is a post-it covered in stickers.
It's how I track my yoga practice - I hesitate to say 'daily' as that's not completely true - but I try my best to show up every day to the mat every day.

I've followed the Yoga calendars.
Done the random spin and pick.
Searched key words for what I felt I needed on that day.

On the good days - you feel great.
On the average days - it's 20 minutes that you know is good for you.
On the bad days - you still get a sticker anyway.'
On the worst days - you definitely need it the most.

I'd decided to start this practice this year as I've always been inconsistent with yoga.
I'm a big example of 'tries it for a week and then has to give up because something else comes along'.
I realised the habits I had built which stuck were the ones I did every. single. day.
(or at least plan to and keep coming back to)
The difference being  -

Yes, it's nice for exercise and a moment of calm each day.
I've done it solely for those separate purposes in the past.
But the practice undeniably soaks into the rest of your lifestyle.

I started to notice I was building mental stamina in the face of stress.
I was staying calmer in a crisis's and I was starting to believe more in my own abilities off the mat.
​The world looks different in downward facing dog.

I've been fitter.
I've been stronger.
And I've been more flexible in the past.
But what I couldn't do was stay consistent.
And that's the part that is more important to me now.

I'd like to add that your reasons are your reasons and they are perfectly dandy indeed.
​I'm not judging here.
I use Adriene because I love her nature and vibe, it's nice to tune in each day for the familiarity - you use whomever or no one - that's up to you.

So what the heck has it got to do with an art business?
Well it's that 'soaking into the rest of your life' part.
Those hard practices, new moves, consistency, gritting and breathing though bad moods, looking at things upside down, turning up every day even no one is checking.
Yep.
All of that is really useful when you're being your own boss.

Knowing your own expectations of yourself.
Being kind when you fall short of them.
And getting up the next day to do it again.

So I'm going to keep going with both.
And I'll either see you on the mat - or in the studio - same difference pal.

and a time consuming business to run behind the scenes.
Ah, the life of a self employed artist in 2025.

I want to make this clear - this is not me complaining.
I thoroughly enjoy a lot of what I am doing.
I love making reels, I love editing long form videos and I actually love updating my website. I don't see it as a chore a lot of the time - more like the extra limb to my art practice.
I enjoy writing this blog, I can find cheer in making social media posts and I adore connecting with people.
Learning the ropes for digital marketing and the absolutely overwhelming intricacies of SEO has taken me a good amount of my time so far and I still have a long way to go!

I try to remind myself daily what it's all for - so I can keep making art and being creative.
I try to keep making it my no.1 priority even when things get super busy/super tech heavy.

Setting up my art shop was not easy - I had no idea I was going to have to understand 3 different platforms in order to outsource.
The successful combination of Printful, Stripe and Weebly felt like an algebra lesson.
​I did that moment out of ratatouille where the critic yeets back to his childhood in his head. Information overload. Help! I want to draw instead! 
Trying to link it all up took a lot of brain power.
I knew setting up a non-outsourced print shop at the moment wasn't a great move for the physical space I'm in. Plus - I'm pretty clumsy and there is paint and glue everywhere in my space...
​In the future - I'd love to.

Learning what SEO is was a minefield too. It took a good few hours on a course before it started to click. I felt the resistance of all this new information on the first day - I was so, so grumpy.
I took myself for a walk like some kind of stir crazy dog.
Grit my teeth kind of stuff.​

Digital marketing also feels like standing on a stage every day going,
"hey guys. it's me again. I do art."
On rough days it's tough - just like any job can be.
I'm constantly resetting my mindset about why I'm doing all of this.

Beyond that - I can already see the potential for burn out in this type of job.
You are doing the work of an entire team.
So, I'm trying to be as patient as possible with my growth with that in mind.
Keep my work/life balance as decent as possible - sitting down each week and each day to see the lay of the land.
​
What is essential?
What can I set to post so I can have my weekend?
How long is this piece going to take?
Trying to ask the smart questions.

But I think most importantly.
What support can I get?

I am very much looking forward to working with The Kings Trust - It's free and for those under 30. (I turned 31 on the 23rd May and I made it in - phew).
- I'll post about it soon to update anyone who is interested.

Finding time and space for creativity again.

I mentioned it in the 'Bury a Friend' behind the scenes video - but making 'photoshoots' is something I've been doing since I was a kid. That - and making YouTube parodies in the summer holidays with friends. The most cherished memories. Just the kids who took a DSLR and random clothes in a bag to a field to simply make stuff.

Doing the same thing recently when I felt the need to change up my reference person (from myself) - it felt like stepping back in time - galivanting around with a bag of outfits and at one point
​- a large fake sword...

​ I've added some examples of baby Zoe and gang below.

I went through many stages with how I felt about this hobby.
I think we all go through those phases that we cringe at as we get older.
But I think I've somehow managed to come full circle!
Because, at the end of the day - it's harmless fun and childlike creativity. Not putting too many structures in place and going - hey - let's make something.

We seemingly had all this 'free time' as kids.
Our brains weren't as full thinking about bills for one!
I think time was more relative, slower even. We got this 6 week block of time we knew was coming each year smack bang in the middle of summer.
I've found the best thing is sticking the photoshoot in my diary and keeping to it. Once my brain recognises 'oh, we're taking this seriously? It's actually in the diary?' - it gets done.
Something else more important will always take over otherwise.
It's not always something more fun either.
But if I know I've scheduled in creative time then I somehow find time to do the hoovering.
They are both 'important'.

Another business course - another review!

Right - This was for a workbook exercise - but I'm imagining how cool it would be to offer one day and, more importantly, what actions I can take to get there. 

Recently I've been signing up to free courses to learn as much as I can about business
- because, I want to do it right this time.
​I've lucked out massively - the Kick Off series gave me Paula and Amir and they have been smashing hosts. Polar opposites in delivery style but both strong, motivating and supportive.

I am not sponsored - I just want to share what has helped me in the hope it helps someone else.
https://www.kickoffinbusiness.co.uk/

The Digital Promotion workshop has been a huge learning curve in examining how ZDAAP exists within the art service space. It's got me thinking very deeply about what I want to do here for people. How I want to sell. What I'd like to be known for.

I always shied away massively from properly promoting my work or even making a business plan  - mostly because
a.) I thought it made me annoying
b.) I hadn't got a clue how to do it or where
c.) I was convinced I needed to be able to do maths?! (Now I've written this I realise it seems mad)

The confidence that doing these courses has instilled in me is palpable.
​
I started to notice myself putting my (virtual) hand up more - wanting to know more.
Amir was great at giving 1-1 answers and going off to find the answer if he didn't know.
I feel more confident in how I'm talking about my business - the fact I am calling it a business and not downplaying it as 'oh, yeah, it's just some art stuff I do'.

There was some heavy information on AI which was both interesting and terrifying. So if you aren't interested at exploring this at all - keep that in mind. It is possible to do your business without using it - don't let it put you off - but I think it is very good to be well informed about what is out there and what a lot of businesses are currently using.

I'd also like to mention how much I appreciated Amir sharing his story and what led him into business. I found his determination and drive both moving and motivating. I will not however, my friend, be getting up at 3 am - I shall leave that to you.
I hope to see you in July for that business expo!

His last answer to my question about what keeps people going was,
"keep asking for help".

Wishing all fellow small business owners the very best in this madness.
You got this.

We start with the alternative arguement - 
it's bad for productivity
it slows you down 
it distracting
etc. etc. 

For my brain - it's like taking off the barriers and going "off you go! be free!".

I speak from an ADHD framework here so if multitasking and habit stacking sound like a nightmare to you - kudos.
I see it as permission to switch up what you're doing whenever you need - with one golden rule:

​The pomodoro method can be a a multi-tasking baseline in disguise if you let it.
(it's named after a tomato timer - it's nothing fancy).
Breaks are the other task you want to do - 
I like a loose version of this :20-25 minutes main task, 5-10 other task x4 - break. - rinse and repeat.
Sometimes I find it's the only way I can complete tasks that are
- boring
- hard
or the dreaded combo - boring and hard.

Essentially - it's definitely more chaotic to lean into multi-tasking but I find I get my most creative, interesting ideas doing it this way. 

They are here.
HooRAY.

For now they reside via Printiful through the Shop above.
You can get them up to A2 size which is close to the original.

I dream of having them in a shop properly one day.
To flick through a collection of prints with your hands.
Imagining them in your house.
Or who you know that would love it the most.
Truly a calming experience whenever I get a chance to do that in a gallery or an art shop.

So for now they are available here.
I'd love to see yours in it's new home - drop me a message!
(Especially if you manage to get a small, furry creature or yourself in shot too :D)
When I first painted them I didn't really dream of releasing them as prints - but it's people's feedback that made me want to do it.
I know not everyone is able to budget for a full scale commission piece-
heck I know I'm not currently!
But I always loved being able to own a little piece of an artists work I love.

​Thanks for being here.

29/04/2025 - A moment of realness.

Today I woke up with an inherent grumpiness - to what I have slowly realised is a defence - a steeling against change and opportunity.
​I open the shop in two days and I am still excited but I am also nervous!
It's been a lot of behind the scenes stuff - trialling and editing and learning (lots of learning) - so my brain wants a pay off, naturally.
But I am committed to this slow, steady growth of ZDAAP in this new direction.
I am selling my own art - much easier said than done. 
Art is feeling and connection and beauty. Trying to convince yourself it's worth pursuing as a career is hard enough so putting on a marketing cap is not easy.
I'm going to finish my coffee.
I'm thankful I've managed to name my apprehension and invite it in for a coffee too.

A final thought:
This post has been in my drafts - for months.
I am so happy it's finally released into the wild along with the prints.

Bonus - my actual face when I pressed 'publish' on my shop.

Here's my top 5 for sending  me into creative cyclone mode - or at least dragging me out of the depths of whatever mood I'm in to put paint to canvas. 

Works every time.
​Something about listening to Andy J talk abut creative stuff is super motivating.
The episodes are a great length for that initial push of two Pomodoro's.
I think I have Pavlolv's dog-effected myself with the intro because I will be picking up a brush when I hear it.
Anyway.
Cheers Andy - you da man,

This man posts the most unhinged stuff and I love it.
The inner-child goes - YES I CAN CREATE!
I think he might be my most liked on Instagram - to be honest the alogorithmn feeds me like a hungry gremlin.
Also it's worth saying our styles are nothing alike but I love the humour and absurditiy.
Takes me out of Perfectionism Brain into Creative Brain.
Thank you David for being so weird.
His page link,

Do you want to listen to a cool Australian artist talk about all sorts of arty stuff and struggles?
I do.
He's very cool.
​Yes, I am very aware at this point I enjoy other creators with rampant adhd, thank you.
He comes up with the best systems for help and manages to inspire at the same time,
Thanks Campbell - keep on keepin' on.

Do you want to watch a hobbit make things.
Yes?
I do also.
​It makes me want to make things.
It is very cosy and hilarious in equal chunks.
I enjoy watching Gremlin Mode as a reminder that things are not perfect.
Thank you for your content and living in a place I aspire towards.
Bonus points for any pet content.
Thank you Rachel - may you find the perfect trinket.

She posts when she wants to - she livin' on her own agenda, and I respect that.
It feels like Christmas to receive a video but they are always great.
​I truly award her chaos Queen for whatever is going on there.
Micarah I never knew I needed to watch a woman carry a bird places and make unhinged fashion until I found your channel.
Honestly my favourite reminder that I have for free will.
Stay cool.
​

I have many honourable mentions - but I will keep it to 5 - maybe I'll make another one as I collect more.
In general - fast, chaotic, authentic and aesthetically delicious content is good for my brain.
It makes me want to go MAKE.
So - if you read this and you even wanted any recommendations - here is 5.
Happy making, happy painting, happy creating, happy existing.

I've done a few free courses in my life - believe me, I used to work in a school.
But let me just say I've not been on one this good in a long time.

Our host was Paula M for two weeks and she was a fountain of business knowledge.
2 weeks! Pretty much non-stop information and support.
And it was government funded!

Every course is what you make of it of course - the workbook, chat and 1-1 advice opportunity made this one very memorable indeed.

For a creative person who has previously tried to avoid anything too left-brain in terms of business planning and money management I was face to face with it by day 1. So I stuck in and worked through it. The light at the end of the tunnel came along after day 2 and things started to click.
Trying to find where to go next when you're self employed is an absolute minefield.
This course helped to break it down and gave space for the information to digest.

I built a business plan, marketing plan, understood some fancy business acronyms, started reaching out to find collaborations and received personalised feedback and help.
I got some invaluable advice that made me rethink my who marketing strategy and where I want to go with all of this. It was a lot take in and I'm sure I'll be processing things for a while to come.

So I'm just leaving this here as a thank you to Paula and to Dawn for recommending this to me.
Thanks Ladies.
Wishing you all the best in the future should our paths cross.​

- Got my painting up in The Berliner
- Attended a job interview
- Answered "I'm an artist" when someone asked what I do 
- Started on my collection piece
- Felt more confident in talking things business!

...watch this space