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My Instagram archives go wayyyyyyy back - apparently as far as 2017 (I've had it longer). So I went on a little journey to catch the vibe of what the run up to Christmas was like in image form for you. And - importantly due to the title of the blog - the dates surrounding them. What I found in general was: 1. The years I was juggling 2 jobs - I was working as and when I could and running myself into the ground 2. I was usually sick around Christmas on top of this 3. I obviously wasn't posting what I was making at this time because they were gifts or cards (duh) so most of it was unseen In general the theme seemed to be - a severe lack of time and lots of last minute requests. 2025 deadline for orders is Fri 12th Dec.
I felt bad at first about making a deadline.Setting a deadline at first felt like telling people I didn't care about their Christmas requests - but it is the opposite. I for one am not the most organised person - despite my efforts and ability to run this business. I live for my calendar but planning ahead Life Things™ gets difficult on top of this - that includes planning ahead in time for Christmas. And part of the problem is the workload on top of all the festive meetups and parties and general Christmas madness. So I figured if I set up a deadline day - we're all on the same page. Enough time for me to make and paint your requests in good time. Enough time to get it to the Post Office. And hopefully - enough time to breathe around Christmas time. Big supermarkets have had their Christmas stock on the shelves since Halloween. Beyond my Autumn/Winter Prints my 'stock' isn't a physical thing until we've had that chat. Doing ZDAAP this year and going forwards one of my goals is to create a business that values time and rest. So that means sticking to my guns too (eek). Everyone deserves to enjoy their holidays. I had way too many years having to use mine as recovery time from burning myself out. What about you? Does this ring a little too true for you? 
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 I'm keeping todays very short indeed (just like me!). Just to wish you all a very Happy Halloween. As we journey into November I hope you are taking care of your needs and mental wellbeing. I'm doing a little 'rebrand' (that feels so funny to call it that when I'm literally just changing my profile pics and throwing in images from this shoot with @whatmonloves.ph). It's a little Halloween treat to myself ok?! I'm writing this ahead of time to try and scoop out some spoons for myself post show week. And I've decided this is enough. Thanks for being here.
Inktober is an annual month-long online art challenge created by artist Jake Parker in 2009, where participants draw an ink illustration each day in October.
Previous challenge videos I said to Dale "I can't think about what to write for the last post of September!" And he grinned and jokingly said "ME!". But I replied "That's not a bad idea". I have no idea if he remembers that conversation or not - but hey - this one's for you! How many artists, creatives and self employed business owners couldn't do what they do - or have started out - without their second in command? I sneakily took the above picture - we'd gone out in search of (another) September birthday gift and some groceries. And came back with groceries... and canvases. One so big I could barely carry it. Hence the photo. But it encapsulates it perfectly. The quiet support alongside making whatever it is you do that keeps you going when you've got nothing left. It's our anniversary on Sunday - so Happy Anniversary you wonderful man. I think of how many other people out there were able to make the leap supported by the person (and people) who love them. Through all the money worries and meltdowns and moments of doubt. I set up ZDAAP again in March after a long, long time of not getting anywhere with interviews. I could not have done it without him. I remember asking him early on - "you believe me right? - I've got this - I'm gonna make it happen" and he said "Zoe, if I didn't believe in you - you'd be working in a supermarket right now". (this is by no means meant as a disrespect to supermarket workers - it just meant - you'd have chucked it in and gone back to job searching if I didn't believe in you.) Anyway - it's a blue post it stuck in my prereferral vision to a board. We went to see an art exhibition early on in the revamp. That's when I truly knew he was onboard team support. Absolute trust that we get this thing going and don't let go until it supports us both one day. We saw an exhibition of work that proved it was possible - I think we all need regular injections of that to stave off the doubt demons.  So, thank you. Thanks for being you. Thanks for being the best office partner around the corner. Thanks for the coffee. Thanks for the tea. Thank you for keeping us afloat whilst I've been building steadily. Thanks for your honest comments and for saving your high praise for when you really like something. Thanks for the logic to balance out the chaos. Thank you for the following comments on my recent work: "It makes me want to play Skyrim" "It looks like a portal out of Minecraft" "It looks like something out of the Witcher" Dale I am sensing a theme here. To the supportive partners and families out there - we salute you. |
 | It's not a huge improvement but I have noticed changes. I'm less hesitant in making first sketch impressions and I pause longer before going in on details. It's only small but I can see how continuing the 'practice' will (I say will because therefore I intend to continue) improve my sketch skills tenfold. Once I stopped trying to make each doodle perfect things were allowed to flow better. I am well aware I should have a practice each day as part of being an artist. The truth is I do lose a lot of time to admin, life stuff and let's face it - the doom scroll too. I've been slowly and steadily trying to carve more room out of my days for things that pay off in the long run - I'm playing the long game here. So adding a practice of sketching is part of that. Having the book with me is very helpful - also that I thankfully love to sketch in biro like a maniac. But - no room for hesitation - get in there with the lines and deal with it if it goes wrong. Watch this space. |
No one cares.
 | One of the things I think in recent years - possibly since the pandemic and being 'released' back into the world is feeling at ease around other people. At ease enough to whack out a sketchbook and start doodling like it's a completely normal thing to do (it is you just have to reframe your thoughts). I think of that meme of the two guys on the bus - one looks out into the bright sunny sky smiling the other - looks over the road where it is darker and he's feeling down. Same bus. You can let your thoughts about everything run you into the ground - or you can follow the things that bring you joy and skill and a different perspective. So when I say 'no one cares' - you can take that to mean 'oh, god, no one cares about me everything is terrible' - or flip it - 'no one cares if I start sketching on this bus because they're all up in their own brains too'. Maybe just don't go staring people down - they don't tend to like that. |
The pressure is off.
 | The pressures off. There I said it. No perfect scribbles. No pressure to post it. No pressure to finish it. In fact - don't finish it. I actively dare you. Start a fresh new page right in the middle of a drawing. This is why you bought 4 sketchbooks that were £2. |
It has served as a journal and idea pad.
 | I try to journal every day anyway - I ask one line from myself as minimum (it's like a brain hack that works 75% of the time you end up writing more). But I noticed that I started doodling more in my regular journal since picking this up again. I often find putting thoughts into picture form much more effective for myself. But also I found myself documenting little moments I'd probably forget by the end of the day because I had my sketchbook on me. All the stuff that gets washed over with a million other thoughts. I was listening to Creative Peptalk (surprised? No? Do I ever shut up about this podcast?) and once again Andy J had read my mind and done an episode which I listened to a few days after starting the process. Anyway - he's a big advocate for doodling to stay present when you're a busy brain individual. It's helped a lot in some moments. |
Mostly it's been like returning to myself.
 |  |
Re-watching Only Yesterday made me think about how much I used to draw as a kid.
I prided myself on the stack of sketchbooks full of work - I always used to get this uniform black A5 ring-bound sketchbook.
I changed it up when I eventually moved medium to watercolour.
But the point is - I took it a lot of places with me.
I drew in all sorts of places.
I drew to stay present.
After all it's the best time my brain feels quiet.
And it costs me £2.
I prided myself on the stack of sketchbooks full of work - I always used to get this uniform black A5 ring-bound sketchbook.
I changed it up when I eventually moved medium to watercolour.
But the point is - I took it a lot of places with me.
I drew in all sorts of places.
I drew to stay present.
After all it's the best time my brain feels quiet.
And it costs me £2.
I'd love so much if you'd join me as a subscriber-
help me get to 1000!
help me get to 1000!
This is the last piece I made without making a behind the scenes video or any lead up.
It was also the first.
And that kinda makes my head swirl - so I'm gonna take a break and come back to this one.
It was also the first.
And that kinda makes my head swirl - so I'm gonna take a break and come back to this one.
One weekend in a field later.
I think as soon as the camera stops feeling like sharing work and starts feeling like 1984 - you have permission to turn it off.
We are in an era of documenting everything-
An era of information overload without feeling much better for it.
We are in an era of documenting everything-
An era of information overload without feeling much better for it.
I constantly stop myself to ask these 2 questions:
1. Is there a benefit to me filming this?
2. Would I be painting better with the camera off?
Because there can be a lot of benefit!
Filming the process invites people into the studio.
Showing the process helps people see beyond the 'finished piece' through all the steps to get there.
Art fills a void for things left unsaid or things unable to verbalise - showing the process helps to build the story.
But the other side is - would I be painting better without a camera on me?
I've found in the last collection I've been working on I simply don't want the camera on.
I'm mad or I'm sad and honestly I just want to work without witness.
Obviously, there's nothing forcing me to post it.
Ironically I am planning to make a video about why there the last 2 paintings in the Archway Series don't really have a long speed paint compared to the first.
But there is something to be said about the invisible judge in your space when you'd rather there not be.
It feels a bit like micromanaging yourself.
Filming the process invites people into the studio.
Showing the process helps people see beyond the 'finished piece' through all the steps to get there.
Art fills a void for things left unsaid or things unable to verbalise - showing the process helps to build the story.
But the other side is - would I be painting better without a camera on me?
I've found in the last collection I've been working on I simply don't want the camera on.
I'm mad or I'm sad and honestly I just want to work without witness.
Obviously, there's nothing forcing me to post it.
Ironically I am planning to make a video about why there the last 2 paintings in the Archway Series don't really have a long speed paint compared to the first.
But there is something to be said about the invisible judge in your space when you'd rather there not be.
It feels a bit like micromanaging yourself.
So, what are you doing about it?
Well, I'm assessing.
All the time.
What feels right and what feels invasive.
I'm looking at launching my Patreon in the future.
It's been sitting around since my relaunch.
Patreon is more of a cool club for the people who are here to support and actually want to see your process.
It's just the calling into the void and wondering if people would be interested.
But maybe it's about calling into the right void.
All the time.
What feels right and what feels invasive.
I'm looking at launching my Patreon in the future.
It's been sitting around since my relaunch.
Patreon is more of a cool club for the people who are here to support and actually want to see your process.
It's just the calling into the void and wondering if people would be interested.
But maybe it's about calling into the right void.
I sit and think about those artists who don't use social media.
The one's who never got a chance.
The one's who vehemently don't use it on purpose.
I wonder if it would be too quiet without it.
Or if I'd simply give myself more time.
The one's who never got a chance.
The one's who vehemently don't use it on purpose.
I wonder if it would be too quiet without it.
Or if I'd simply give myself more time.
How do you feel documenting your process?
Committing to that 'desired' aesthetic of burning the candle at both ends to live and die for your work-
gets you burnt twice.
Me, I said that staring at you who is working too hard.
gets you burnt twice.
Me, I said that staring at you who is working too hard.
"I decided to become an artist when I was about your age. I liked to draw so much, I almost hated to go to bed. And then one day, all of a sudden, I couldn't draw anything. Everything I drew, I didn't like. I realized that my art up to then was a copy of someone else, things I had seen somewhere. I decided I had to discover my own style. It's still difficult. But then, the results...They seem to be a little better than before."
- Ursula explaining her picture to Kiki
- Ursula explaining her picture to Kiki
I love you Ursula.
Also Studio Ghibli - incredible.
The best kind of film to put to on to slow the day down and land somewhere beautiful.
The best kind of film to put to on to slow the day down and land somewhere beautiful.
Do you think of this trope when you hear someone say they are an artist or creative:
A starving artist is an artist who sacrifices material well-being in order to focus on their artwork. They typically live on minimum expenses, either for a lack of business or because all their disposable income goes toward art projects. Related terms include starving actor and starving musician. - Wiki.
Do you know what disability stopped me doing?
Burning the candle at both fuckin ends.
I literally can't.
My body can't cope with it anymore.
I remember the moment I realised I couldn't 'do it like I used to' - I mean, there's been a few - but one in particular was midway through the last set design I did. I was laid up on the sofa and all my joints weren't working properly and I was trying to get ready for another day of hard physical labour and my Dad caught me and told me to lay back down.
I would not have finished that last set without the help of family at all.
I force myself to clock off.
Take breaks.
Even though I love what I'm doing.
I literally can't.
My body can't cope with it anymore.
I remember the moment I realised I couldn't 'do it like I used to' - I mean, there's been a few - but one in particular was midway through the last set design I did. I was laid up on the sofa and all my joints weren't working properly and I was trying to get ready for another day of hard physical labour and my Dad caught me and told me to lay back down.
I would not have finished that last set without the help of family at all.
I force myself to clock off.
Take breaks.
Even though I love what I'm doing.
| I know 'burn out'. It's not pretty at all. It looks like this - and worse. But I think there's only so much that can be gained from bringing vulnerability in the form of a picture to a blog post. |  |
Learn to slow down before life forces you to.
This is not a bid to say
Stop having fun
Stop being spontaneous
Stop being young
Stop anything joyful - or whatever else your brain is trying to read instead.
It's me saying to anybody who might need to hear it:
You have permission to slow down.
Slow sustainable growth beats burn out every, single time.
Stop having fun
Stop being spontaneous
Stop being young
Stop anything joyful - or whatever else your brain is trying to read instead.
It's me saying to anybody who might need to hear it:
You have permission to slow down.
Slow sustainable growth beats burn out every, single time.
 |  |
I'm at it - I've reached the:
"Oh god, I hate it. I can't paint. I want to give up. WhAT HAve I cREAATED."
stage of the process.
This is the part I often allow myself to turn off the camera filming my bts content so I can just be.
My face looks like this usually at this point:
My face looks like this usually at this point:
Hilariously - if you get your Sherlock Holmes on - you can see I hadn't even started the face at the point I took this - which means I've been at this point... a while.
I am not about to very serious in this blog post.
I am clearly writing this to avoid painting the painting on my easel.
I am not about to very serious in this blog post.
I am clearly writing this to avoid painting the painting on my easel.
Why does it happen?
What do I do?
Does it always work?
Why does it happen?
My theory is that my head is full of gremlins that purely thrive on the lifeblood of anxiety and stress.
They are subdued by calm, peaceful painting - but the moment things start to move towards the messy middle - they are alerted.
Ears prick.
Snouts sniff.
Evil grins spread across their little faces as they eye each other to gather.
This is their moment.
As one united army they arrive to the brain centre and begin their war cries.
A brain gremlins war cry, though united in feeling, is chaotic in delivery.
They all yell at once- different iterations of panic, hate, misery.
They have been waiting all week for this.
Meditation kept them at bay.
So did that lovely walk and that fussing of a dog.
But they have their moment to shine at last and they want to take full use of the opportunity.
(What do you mean your head isn't full of gremlins.
I'd go see the GP mate.)
They are subdued by calm, peaceful painting - but the moment things start to move towards the messy middle - they are alerted.
Ears prick.
Snouts sniff.
Evil grins spread across their little faces as they eye each other to gather.
This is their moment.
As one united army they arrive to the brain centre and begin their war cries.
A brain gremlins war cry, though united in feeling, is chaotic in delivery.
They all yell at once- different iterations of panic, hate, misery.
They have been waiting all week for this.
Meditation kept them at bay.
So did that lovely walk and that fussing of a dog.
But they have their moment to shine at last and they want to take full use of the opportunity.
(What do you mean your head isn't full of gremlins.
I'd go see the GP mate.)
What do I do?
I was born understanding a gremlins war cry so well- I thought myself part gremlin.
But one day I was gifted a mirror and saw I had no snout.
No pointy ears.
And when I grinned - I was not evil.
A warriors heart non the less - but a gremlin I was not.
Armed with this new information I began to see the strategy of the gremlin nation.
I observed the war cry and the cult-like nature of the gremlins.
Stood aside and saw that what they yelled was not truth.
Gremlins fear peace and calm.
For in the peace and calm their very own inner demons take over.
Like a vicious cycle of misinformation and chaos.
I decided on a new movement - I would listen to each gremlin - a third party.
I would stamp it out with the angry gremlins.
Cry with the sad gremlins.
Breathe deep with the panicked ones.
Sometimes we blasted angry music and painted anyway.
Sometimes we took a nap.
But I stopped hating the gremlins.
But one day I was gifted a mirror and saw I had no snout.
No pointy ears.
And when I grinned - I was not evil.
A warriors heart non the less - but a gremlin I was not.
Armed with this new information I began to see the strategy of the gremlin nation.
I observed the war cry and the cult-like nature of the gremlins.
Stood aside and saw that what they yelled was not truth.
Gremlins fear peace and calm.
For in the peace and calm their very own inner demons take over.
Like a vicious cycle of misinformation and chaos.
I decided on a new movement - I would listen to each gremlin - a third party.
I would stamp it out with the angry gremlins.
Cry with the sad gremlins.
Breathe deep with the panicked ones.
Sometimes we blasted angry music and painted anyway.
Sometimes we took a nap.
But I stopped hating the gremlins.
Does it always work?
Gremlins are great at what they do.
They're loud,
They're proud and
they're excellent tacticians.
They're a practiced army that protects by keeping things small.
Even armed with my new 'I'm not a part of this' mentality - some days they won.
We keep a big scoreboard in the break room - it's waist height so they can reach it.
I'd say I'm winning this year - but honestly, I think they're cheating.
They're loud,
They're proud and
they're excellent tacticians.
They're a practiced army that protects by keeping things small.
Even armed with my new 'I'm not a part of this' mentality - some days they won.
We keep a big scoreboard in the break room - it's waist height so they can reach it.
I'd say I'm winning this year - but honestly, I think they're cheating.
Zoe, why the hell did you write this?
Sometimes you gotta shake up the fear of failure with a little absurdity.
Sometimes you gotta remind yourself you don't have to take everything seriously.
Sometimes you gotta remind yourself you don't have to take everything seriously.
I'm keeping the first piece from The Archway Series close by to help me remember I can do it.
When the gremlins tell me "YoU Got it RIGht thatttt time"
I say "Guys, pipe down - that's a finished piece. Go make some coffee or something".
When the gremlins tell me "YoU Got it RIGht thatttt time"
I say "Guys, pipe down - that's a finished piece. Go make some coffee or something".
Last month I put out a call to my mailing list - an opportunity to celebrate creatives with an interview.
Join my mailing list to find out more cool stuff here:
Join my mailing list to find out more cool stuff here:
So, today we celebrate the wonderful
Chloe Chicarelli
Artist, Muralist, Graphic Designer & Illustrator based in Dayton, Ohio
Chloe-
"Everything you need is within you. I wish every woman would give themselves the grace to listen to their body... I will put care, attention, love, and devotion into what I do. I don't really care for money - I could do this as a philanthropy thing. But we gotta eat.
I think little me would be really happy that I'm doing something that's just me. I didn't even know I would live this long or make it this far."
You can either watch, listen or read the interview below - or all 3 if you like!
The Blog Version:
I feel I simply have to preface this with the biggest thank you to Chloe.
She jumped right in, whole hearted- wonky mic, technical difficulties and all.
The honesty and humour she answered my questions with is worth its weight in gold.
Thank you my 'big tumbleweed of emotion'.
You can see that integrity shine through in her work at:
She jumped right in, whole hearted- wonky mic, technical difficulties and all.
The honesty and humour she answered my questions with is worth its weight in gold.
Thank you my 'big tumbleweed of emotion'.
You can see that integrity shine through in her work at:
Social links:
Chloe at work on the 'Twilight' mural.
The short version:
Q: What was your favourite project?
A: The "Twilight" mural for the Juvenile Court system. "It was my second ever mural, and honestly one of the most humbling experiences. I worked with kids who were in tough situations, and giving them a creative outlet was incredible." I loved orchestrating the project and being able to work with a local famous artist's design.
Q: How do you push through tough days?
A: "I follow this quote by Abraham Lincoln: 'Leave nothing for tomorrow which can be done today.' If I'm lazy today, I'll pay for it tomorrow. It can become a knock-on effect that leads to burnout." I also try to listen to my body and understand my own feminine energy cycles.
Q: What made you say yes to creative opportunities?
A: "Why the fuck not? I'm at the point in my life where I take opportunities I'm presented with - even if they feel weird and wild and some scary." I want to support other artists and believe we can all succeed together.
Q: What would your younger self think about your current work? A: "I think she'd be really happy that I'm doing something that's just me. I didn't even know I would live this long or make it this far. I keep seeing milestones, and it's really cool that I keep pushing and making cool stuff."
Q: What do you wish people knew about your creative process?
A: "I wish people would appreciate the care, attention, love, and devotion I put into my work. I hate talking about money, but we've got to eat. When people say 'I could do that,' I say, 'Go on then.'" I want people to understand the real work behind creating art.
Q: What's been your biggest creative journey moment?
A: "It's been more of a slow burn. Every little thing I've done has built up. Now I'm at a point where people tag me in projects, and I'm building a reputation." Moving to America gave me a chance to become the person I know I am.
Q: What's your ultimate goal?
A: "I want people to smile. I mean, somebody almost crashed their car yesterday just looking at my work - that's the ultimate compliment!"
A: The "Twilight" mural for the Juvenile Court system. "It was my second ever mural, and honestly one of the most humbling experiences. I worked with kids who were in tough situations, and giving them a creative outlet was incredible." I loved orchestrating the project and being able to work with a local famous artist's design.
Q: How do you push through tough days?
A: "I follow this quote by Abraham Lincoln: 'Leave nothing for tomorrow which can be done today.' If I'm lazy today, I'll pay for it tomorrow. It can become a knock-on effect that leads to burnout." I also try to listen to my body and understand my own feminine energy cycles.
Q: What made you say yes to creative opportunities?
A: "Why the fuck not? I'm at the point in my life where I take opportunities I'm presented with - even if they feel weird and wild and some scary." I want to support other artists and believe we can all succeed together.
Q: What would your younger self think about your current work? A: "I think she'd be really happy that I'm doing something that's just me. I didn't even know I would live this long or make it this far. I keep seeing milestones, and it's really cool that I keep pushing and making cool stuff."
Q: What do you wish people knew about your creative process?
A: "I wish people would appreciate the care, attention, love, and devotion I put into my work. I hate talking about money, but we've got to eat. When people say 'I could do that,' I say, 'Go on then.'" I want people to understand the real work behind creating art.
Q: What's been your biggest creative journey moment?
A: "It's been more of a slow burn. Every little thing I've done has built up. Now I'm at a point where people tag me in projects, and I'm building a reputation." Moving to America gave me a chance to become the person I know I am.
Q: What's your ultimate goal?
A: "I want people to smile. I mean, somebody almost crashed their car yesterday just looking at my work - that's the ultimate compliment!"
The grab a coffee and settle back version -
If you prefer to read and take in some more peaceful media.
Zoe Davey 0:00
Hi, welcome to the first video of this type on this channel. It is linked to a blog. And if you've been following my creative journey recently, you'll know that I've been making a blog every single Friday, and recently, I reached out to my mailing list because I knew there's some wonderful creative people on there that I wanted to hear from, and figure that other people might want to hear from too. And and someone replied, It was Chloe, and I was so pleased, and I'll always be so pleased and thankful for her being the first interviewee. Enjoy the interview. It's long. We go off on tangents, but I love to listen to that kind of stuff where creatives talk to other creatives. They go off on tangents, and they don't apologize for it. I've done the best I can with the audio. It will get better in time, but for now, is what it is. It's scrappy. I've done the best I can with it. I've really enjoyed this interview. We talk about what you tell her younger self about what she's doing now, we talk about what her favourite projects were, and why they were her favourite projects, and how she pushes through on the really difficult times. It's heart-warming, it's wonderful, and I hope you really enjoy it. And now there's just one more message from me before we carry on. So it turns out, if you screen record a phone call, it doesn't necessarily record the audio. So this is the video of me apologizing for not being in the corner of the screen because I turned my camera off by accident and the audio doesn't work. So we live and we learn. That's what I'm going to say.
We'll get better from our mistakes.
Chloe C 1:32
Lady, right. We are going to make an attempt at an introduction. Okay, this is the first one of these, my honoured guest, Chloe Chicarelli, here she is all the way from America. Thank you for being the first one. Thank you for being
Always down to be your test guinea pig, whatever you need. I love this. This is so awesome, amazing.
Zoe Davey 2:01
Um, we've basically got how many questions are we doing today? We are doing eight whole questions. But the amount of me and you like to talk this is going to be, like, six hours long. So buckle in, everyone.
Chloe C 2:14
Shut me up if I start yapping.
Zoe Davey 2:19
No that's the point. Is, if I'm yapping too much. I need to be reined in, because I'm the one that's supposed to ask the questions and then shut up.
Chloe C 2:26
That's fine. I am definitely more of the listener in a relationship than us than the talker. So...
Zoe Davey 2:32
Well, it's your turn to have the spotlight put on you. I don't know how you feel about that. Try well, for anybody who doesn't know Chloe, she is a mural artist and general creative person, I will link her stuff on her website, because it looks amazing. My favorite piece, I think that you've done, I've written it down here so I didn't forget was the Downtown Box. Like it's a huge side of the building with the birds in it, and they're like the Heron, yep. It's amazing. That's really nice colors. And that's the picture that I'm going to put in there.
Chloe C 3:10
A little segue into question one. Then, fantastic.
Zoe Davey 3:15
I didn't even plan that. That's perfect. Let's what is question one. Question one is, what's your favourite project you've ever worked on? And why?
Chloe C 3:23
Oh, my goodness, crazy. Yeah. So Twilight, that one was called, and it's actually the biggest project that I've done to date. And funnily enough, it was only my second ever mural. So I used to work a nonprofit in downtown Dayton, and I just completed the first one. They just kind of said, Hey, did anybody want to do this mural? Nobody really wanted to paint it. The design had made. So it was already like, ready to go. And I was like, I'll do it.
Zoe Davey 3:59
That's the dream, there, right?
Chloe C 4:01
Like, you're pretty good at this. I'm like, thank you. Like, any other opportunities that you've got, like, thrown my way, I'd absolutely love that. Definitely no money. This was, this was before. This was definitely getting my experience. Yeah. So yeah, the owner just approached me one day, and she was like, Hey, we're going to be doing a really big project. Would you like to be the lead muralist? And like, no hesitation. I was just like, let's go. And then she kind of proceeded to, you know, go. Just explain a little bit more about what that would all entail. It was actually a program with the Montgomery County Juvenile court system. So they it's juvie kids, you know, just under 18, kids who have, you know, maybe kind of done something they shouldn't have. They're in bad situations. It was one of them. Most like humbling things I've ever done. So they have a project called the halo project, which is helping adolescents achieve long term objectives. So it just gave these kids, you know, something to do that kept them out of trouble. A lot of them were, like, really, really good artists, and they just, you know, I'm so happy that they finally had something where they could be themselves. It was a little bit scary. I'm not gonna lie, I had a couple of like, 18, 17 year olds who were like, I'm a run. I'm a run every day. And I'm like, please don't run. I've got so much of the stuff that I have to do with this, but it was such an eye opener. I was the lead muralist on that one, so I kind of really got to understand, like, the inner workings of it all, you know, like, I didn't get too much into the budget side of things, but just kind of like all the working parts and everything that it takes to make something like that go and I just, I loved it. I loved being able to orchestrate stuff, you know, getting out there doing actual work. The design was actually done by a local, famous artist called gay Hilton. So I was just like, super stoked to be doing her work, getting it all done. It was, it was really good. It really could, really cool, really good, really cool.
Zoe Davey 6:34
You can see it on your website, and that that side of the building is absolutely massive as well. I think you've got, like, a panel over there and before and after.
I didn't know that they had been painting it with you as well. That's amazing. Like, I mean, to throw you in at the deep end, like, obviously you said yes, not only that, you you're also in charge of these people, making sure that they like, on task, doing their thing. And you nailed it anyway. No wonder it's your favourite.
Chloe C 6:53
It was definitely stressful. It was literal blood, sweat and tears shed mostly, I was hoping, like heavy equipment and stuff. Yeah, it was a it was one of the most cool learning experiences, as stressful as it was, and lots of egos and personalities and stuff, it was none of that mattered. Like, the moment I had done that, every all the kids were only helping on, like, kind of, like, the block colours and stuff, I just remember there was a little bit of lettering in the bottom left corner, and that was, like, the last thing I was doing. And like, it's so crazy. Like, you start something that's so daunting, and then, like, you have that final brush stroke, and then you're like, Oh, I'm doing it so weird, all of that, all of that stress, and I finally just finished, and you're like, oh, oh, it's happened. I did it.
Zoe Davey 7:57
It was so good. So, yeah, no, that's an amazing answer. Thank you so much. If this doesn't record, because this is our first time doing this. If this doesn't record, I'll just cry, because that was a wonderful answer, and people need to hear that, because I think it's it's really inspiring to hear the joy that comes out of doing things that aren't necessarily always broadcasted as like, job type. Isn't easy.
Chloe C 8:26
I mean, there's a couple of things, ;) but...
-dog barks - sorry, just making sure the dog was fed.
Zoe Davey 8:36
Important things in life.
Chloe C 8:38
...is that, yeah, no, I just You just gotta keep going. Just gotta keep pushing. It's really cool, even when things are hard, like, I guess this,
Zoe Davey 8:52
Maybe then after we piggyback and we go on to Question three, because that would be a perfect segue. It's, How do you push through on a hard day? Okay? And then we can go back, unless you want to do question two?
Chloe C 9:05
What is Question three?
Zoe Davey 9:10
Question three is, how do you push through on a hard day when the going gets tough? What? What are your ways of pushing through?
Chloe C 9:18
Um, so David actually has this quote that he says all the time, and it's really and I want to say this right? I'm going to try and say it, and then I'm going to make sure it's right. What is it? Leave nothing for tomorrow, which leave nothing for tomorrow, which can be done today. Abraham Lincoln, oh, we like that. And I really hold it like quite close to my heart, honestly, as I continue to, like do this and start to, you know, get deeper into this, I'm a solo artist. I. Uh, the work comes out of my hands. Like, yes, there's times where I have assistance and they can do, you know, block colouring and stuff like that. But whatever I don't do today, if I want to be lazy today, I'm going to pay for that tomorrow. Yeah, I and it can really start to become a knock on effect, and that really affects me with burnout. So, yeah, I I am. It's kind of funny, like, I do feel like quite a lazy girl at heart, and it is hard to kind of push through sometimes when all you want to do is just go home and just, like, watch something on Netflix. But I just, I just know that if I don't do it today, it's tomorrow's problem, and then that will be the next day's problem. And it kind of like weirdly pushes me to keep going. It just makes me do that extra, you know, that extra 20 minutes that tomorrow, you know, and 20 minutes every single day you've lost another hour. And then, you know, that's that Friday feeling when I want to actually go home. I've kind of been through that. So I guess it's all about just trying to find the balance, listening, obviously, to your body. And I guess this does actually kind of go into like question four as well. Yes, yes, like that. I'm getting older. My body is not getting younger. I'm trying to get fitter right now. I'm trying to be better about listening to my body, but it really has been a game changer, especially for women. Following your cycle, I think is one of the most important things that you can do, because me, in my luteal phase, all I want to do is scream and cry. I don't want to be understanding to be I don't want to be dealing with bugs. I don't want to, you know, think no matter what industry you're in, I definitely think women should do that, because we are absolutely beating ourselves raw trying to keep up with men who have cortisol levels that get reset every 24 hours. We're just different creatures. And I just, I wish that every woman would give themselves the grace that I'm a bit of a hypocrite. I don't always do this. I sometimes have headlines, you know, I sometimes have to push a little bit harder. But if I could preach from the mountain tops, listen to your body. Listen to when you need rest, listen to what hurts and what you can do. You know it's like, oh yes, self care. It's just some face masks that's put some conditioning treatment on our hair. It's so much deeper than that. It's listening then checking in with yourself. Every single day, I find myself often, and more often than not, like, in a bad mood and trying to figure out the the core of that is it my body saying, oh, I need, I need to rest. Oh, my body's like, irritated, like, everything that you need is within you. I feel like, and maybe I sound like a crazy, crazy lady at this point, but like
Zoe Davey 13:01
I'll join you!
Chloe C 13:03
Your body knows what it needs. And I am really trying to, like, yesterday, it we had tornado warnings yesterday, and it was crazy. And I just said, okay, my body needs to rest. And I even joke about it. It's my forced relaxation. I sit there, and I will make myself just sit there, and it's like, I just wait for my body to, like, soak in and just appreciate it. I also think there's a lot of like, good with like, meditation and all that kind of stuff as well. But that's a whole 'nother. That's a whole 'nother conversation. I like it, though. Just take care of is that so obviously, yourself, learn how to listen to your body and then actually listen to your body, and then actually do the things that your body kind of needs you to do before everybody else who's up at 5am and doing this and drinking this and doing everything that's so good like Do what makes you happy? Sometimes I'm barely surviving, so
Zoe Davey 14:04
We're just doing our best.
Perfect. Well, what was, Oh, we're going back to two then what were the biggest challenges you faced on that project? So we kind of covered them going back to the first mural project. But what was the biggest challenge for you? Do you think
Chloe C 14:24
Bugs.
Zoe Davey 14:28
Bugs?!
Chloe C 14:30
So many bugs. There's so many spiders, outdoors, outdoors, flying creatures and like, I don't really care for them, but it was just constantly. No, that was that was definitely not ideal, obviously painted in summer, when the lights come on at night, it's
Zoe Davey 14:58
Oh,my God. I. Had not even considered that that's wild. I did paint outside for pretty much the first time with acrylics the other day, and there were a few, but I imagine over there, it is a little bit Wilder.
Chloe C 15:13
I was led over to America. Was not informed about them - horrendous.
Zoe Davey 15:18
God damn it, David, you didn't inform her?
Amazing. What made you say yes to the first mural or creative or creative opportunity that you did? What made you say yeah?
Chloe C 15:33
Can I swear?
Zoe Davey 15:34
Yeah.
Chloe C 15:34
Why the fuck not? Yeah?
Zoe Davey 15:38
I agree.
Chloe C 15:39
I just, I'm, at that point in life, like I'm a take opportunities. I, you know, we get presented with these weird and wild things every day, and some of them can feel scary. Some of them, one right now, yeah, like this is literally to be on podcasts and stuff. And I'm just like, I am not.
Zoe Davey 16:03
Well, you clearly are. You're doing some great answers.
Chloe C 16:08
And if I can do something that benefits other people as well, but women like, it's kind of funny around here late. I mean, there's, there's a lot of artists who have a lot of egos, and that's like a global thing, but just trying to find people who have, like, similar mindsets, and just, we all got to eat. We all want to eat. Why can't we all eat? You know, it's like, I really want to support everybody, and it doesn't have to be like, this petty thing and like so just fucking vibe, and we all have different skill sets. Let's come together.
Zoe Davey 16:44
-sings- Yes, collaborate and listen.
Chloe C 16:49
Yes. Why not?
Zoe Davey 16:54
Indeed.
Number six, we're firing through these. I'm going to check what time we're on. What time are we on? It doesn't tell you we're in the zone. Excellent. What? Where's my I can't read number six. What do you-This is my favorite little question that came up with- what do you think little you as in, like you as I don't know, maybe like 6, 7, 8, would say about the work you do now?
Chloe C 17:22
You know, I got a little bit like, when I read your questions, I like, a little bit teared. I thought that one, oh, I think she'd just be really happy that she's doing something that's just me. You know, I just feel like we all again, we take these opportunities in life. And I got to a point, you know, had my fancy corporate job, everything was good, but I just wasn't happy. I just wasn't where I thought I wanted to be in life, and I didn't know where I wanted to be. I spent my life just thinking I'd be kind of a bit of just a floater. I've never really had like a secure friendship group. I've got my family and stuff, but I've just always been a bit of a lone wolf, so I knew that whatever I did do, I needed that to kind of fill that little bit that I always felt safe, and I've always felt safe when I'm on my own, because I only have to worry about myself, and that's clearly some therapist talk.
Zoe Davey 18:25
I'll make a note of that one down for you.
Chloe C 18:31
I think she'd be really proud. I didn't, I didn't even know I would live this long. Yeah, think I'd make it, and I keep seeing milestones, and it's it's really cool, and I keep pushing, and I keep making cool stuff, and I keep doing cool stuff, so better not stop now.
Zoe Davey 18:53
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being really honest with that answer. You could have just said anything, and you gave me your heart.
Chloe C 19:00
And that was because you said it my whole body -visibly wiping tears-
Zoe Davey 19:05
Well, that's how you know it's true. That's how you know it's the good stuff. Yeah. So what do you wish more people knew about the process behind your work?
Chloe C 19:19
Everything?
Just just the care, attention, love, devotion, that I will put into what I do, like I don't. There's not many things unless, like, you're a real prick to me. I'm going to give you my everything. Like you really have to, like, be an asshole to me, for me to, like, start not giving you my fault. Yeah. Wait, what was the question again, my brain just...
Zoe Davey 19:50
I think the question was, what do you wish people knew? Yeah, what do you wish more about the process behind it?
Chloe C 19:56
Yeah, just the work that goes in behind. Scenes, the admin, the putting in every single receipt that I've ever spent on any kind of pain, figuring out how to be a business owner, because this is my first year full time. I still don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm figuring it out every day, and...
Zoe Davey 20:21
...clearly something's working.
Chloe C 20:24
I just wish people would give me the support and appreciate artists and the time and effort that does go in, because I will forever wear mug across my forehead. If I could do everything for free, I would, yeah.
Zoe Davey 20:38
But we can't. We can't eat that way.
Chloe C 20:42
I could do this, like, just as a philanthropy thing, that would be awesome. Maybe one day, that is where, maybe one day, because I hate talking about money, but we gotta eat.
Zoe Davey 20:53
We have to eat, we have to pay for houses. We have to put clothes on our bags because we get arrested otherwise, you know?
Chloe C 21:00
Yeah, I guess that's the thing. A lot of people come to me and go, Well, I could do that. And I'm like, Well, go on. And then, well, you know, the cost of this, the cost of that, the cost of that, they can't seem to think of all the things like I, I was painting a mural, what, three days ago, and a guy came over. He was a general contractor, and I had four brushes laying on the floor. He was like, why have you got $200 just spilled out on the floor like that? And I went, Oh, you actually understand the value of things.
Zoe Davey 21:36
That's really cool, my friend, I saw something in my friend's story the other day that was like someone had asked, like, oh, you're a photographer. Do you just do that for fun or whatever? And then it was like, No, I just go to places with 300 300 Wait, 3000 pounds worth of equipment just hanging off me and try and make friends with toddlers for fun. No, of course, it's my job. But yeah, it's like when someone realizes how either how much time something takes, how much something costs, or how much effort and understanding and trial and error, how many times you failed before you got to that point when they recognize that, oh, that's a good day. That's a nice day. That's almost better than a pat on the back. It's a I see, I see what's going on here.
Chloe C 22:26
I do. I mean, like, when I do my abstract stuff, a lot of people, that's where you really start to get the oh, well, I could do that.
Zoe Davey 22:33
Like, what the pain pouring thing, it looks amazing?!
Chloe C 22:36
Just abstract work in general. Like, yeah, sometimes stuff only does take me two hours, and, yeah, charge you $1,000 for it, because that's how many times before, years and years and years learning all these different things to get me to that point. And it's just like anything. I just wished artists were kind of treated like general contractors. That's kind of where I feel in the same vein, yeah, yeah.
Zoe Davey 23:05
Never questioned a plumber. Never questioned a plumber in my life.
Chloe C 23:09
Weird, isn't it? I can't believe we've made
Zoe Davey 23:12
It has come to the last question, but we have, is there a moment in your creative journey that changed everything for you.
Chloe C 23:23
I was thinking about really, like trying to think of like something profound,
Zoe Davey 23:32
It's okay, if there's nothing.
Chloe C 23:35
I think it's kind of been like a slow burn more than anything. Yeah, I feel like every single little thing that I've done, I mean, I will say that working at the nonprofit, opened up a lot of doors, met a couple of people. I mean, yeah, just definitely, just through the years, just kind of, you know, building it up, building it, building it up. And like, now I'm at a point where, like, I'll go on Facebook every day and somebody's tagged me about a project, and like, I feel like just getting that reputation. And, yeah, you know, it's, I could lose that reputation in one day. I could do something, say something like, you know, cancel culture, like, and as a 90s baby, it can, it can be hard sometimes to find, like, where the wokeness is, and like what I can and can't say. I feel like, since moving to America, I was kind of given a, like, a bit of a second chance. I got to become the person that I know I am without all the past and everybody else's opinions and all that kind of stuff, you know, and it made me realize that I am a good person, and I want to do good in the world. And since that really it's just motivated me to want to do more. And I think within. Motivation comes that, you know, just it tumble. It's a big Tumbleweed of feelings and emotions to it.
Zoe Davey 25:11
Doesn't have to be a movie moment right?
Chloe C 25:13
Sometimes, on and on and on, little meet cute, where everything just kind of went. You're a magical artist.
Zoe Davey 25:21
It's now, like, congratulations, but like, it's today, you're a magical artist.
Chloe C 25:26
Now, I feel like I've worked really hard over the like, I mean, I went to art school, I did all that good.
Zoe Davey 25:36
You did.
Chloe C 25:38
Everything has just come out to this point where it was supposed to be. And again, I'm floating in a random country, in a random town, and my name's on buildings, and it's just, it's bizarre, but amazing. So yeah, definitely no magic firework moment, just a nice little slow Ember that's growing, and I hope it just keeps growing, because we should I want this to go to glow, glow forever with a because you're glowing right now, because this is so bright, the sun's just come out for the first time.
Zoe Davey 26:15
Oh my gosh. Um, thank you. Thank you. That's not going to cover it. It's not going to cover it. It's it because, like, you need the people in your life who take a chance, and you take a chance of me all the time, so and now you're doing this for me. A special wish that this recorded properly. Wish with me. Ready? Please, please, please. -Chloe wishes, fingers crossed, on camera-. And then I had the little thing pop up that was like, You need to upgrade if you want to do 10 more minutes worth of speaking. I was like, I think the takeaways from this will be so lovely, because you've been so honest and so just full of joy about it all. And I think that shines through at the end of the day, even though things get really rough and like life is trying. Like, the thing that keeps shining through is that you love doing this stuff, and you love making beautiful things for people. And like, if you can keep doing that, then you're gonna pretty happy be
Chloe C 27:17
I wanna, I want people to smile. Like, I mean, somebody almost crashed the car yesterday, and a policeman went like the wrong way yesterday, just because they're looking at my work and I that's one thing of a town where I don't think people understand general laws, but that's okay.
Zoe Davey 27:39
I mean, that's a high compliment
Chloe C 27:41
Oh God, Ohio now.
Zoe Davey 27:44
So I think we'll carry on. Go, go.
Chloe C 27:50
You inspire me again. The fact that you you have shown that you know, just because it doesn't always go the way you want it to the first time. Like tenacity, Zoe is it's all inspiring. It really we're doing this. Like, I just, we all have like things that we can, like, look up to, and like, just, I don't know, I love your style. I love how you can just bash it out and not overthink stuff, like everything that like, I wished I could do, like you just do it. You don't worry. You just do how do
Zoe Davey 28:28
Oh how do you a how do you know I don't worry? You interview me one day. I'll tell you!
Chloe C 28:34
You finished a painting. Zoe,
Zoe Davey 28:37
Oh, that is true.
Chloe C 28:38
I have ones, but I can finish them.
Zoe Davey 28:41
But I'll get on you after we finish this, this interview, in a second, I'll harass you about finishing some art. How about that?
Chloe C 28:47
Yeah, I mean, I'm getting my studio space set up right now, so I'm kind of, I can't wait to see that journey and where that all goes and my canvases have gone so like that's happening in the next you fully, fully talked, amazing, right?
Zoe Davey 29:04
Where can people find you if they don't know who you are or they don't already follow you?
Chloe C 29:08
They can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Chloe Chicarelli Instagram at, just at, it's just because I sometimes put stuff on Tiktok. I am not the biggest social media girl.
Zoe Davey 29:25
Want to we'll get there. You're a great example of someone who is bossing it without having to completely follow the norm. So that's okay. If there's people out there who are like, I don't know it, you're in that boat too, and you're still smashing it.
Chloe C 29:41
So okay, as the ex social media manager, I don't want to, I don't want to be there. And if you mural, I am International, you can go on my website, submit request, www.chloechicarelli.com,
Zoe Davey 29:57
Oh my gosh. I want to see where this leads. I'm very curious. Trying to edit like that. All right, we're gonna end it now. Thank you for listening to everyone. Bye.
Hi, welcome to the first video of this type on this channel. It is linked to a blog. And if you've been following my creative journey recently, you'll know that I've been making a blog every single Friday, and recently, I reached out to my mailing list because I knew there's some wonderful creative people on there that I wanted to hear from, and figure that other people might want to hear from too. And and someone replied, It was Chloe, and I was so pleased, and I'll always be so pleased and thankful for her being the first interviewee. Enjoy the interview. It's long. We go off on tangents, but I love to listen to that kind of stuff where creatives talk to other creatives. They go off on tangents, and they don't apologize for it. I've done the best I can with the audio. It will get better in time, but for now, is what it is. It's scrappy. I've done the best I can with it. I've really enjoyed this interview. We talk about what you tell her younger self about what she's doing now, we talk about what her favourite projects were, and why they were her favourite projects, and how she pushes through on the really difficult times. It's heart-warming, it's wonderful, and I hope you really enjoy it. And now there's just one more message from me before we carry on. So it turns out, if you screen record a phone call, it doesn't necessarily record the audio. So this is the video of me apologizing for not being in the corner of the screen because I turned my camera off by accident and the audio doesn't work. So we live and we learn. That's what I'm going to say.
We'll get better from our mistakes.
Chloe C 1:32
Lady, right. We are going to make an attempt at an introduction. Okay, this is the first one of these, my honoured guest, Chloe Chicarelli, here she is all the way from America. Thank you for being the first one. Thank you for being
Always down to be your test guinea pig, whatever you need. I love this. This is so awesome, amazing.
Zoe Davey 2:01
Um, we've basically got how many questions are we doing today? We are doing eight whole questions. But the amount of me and you like to talk this is going to be, like, six hours long. So buckle in, everyone.
Chloe C 2:14
Shut me up if I start yapping.
Zoe Davey 2:19
No that's the point. Is, if I'm yapping too much. I need to be reined in, because I'm the one that's supposed to ask the questions and then shut up.
Chloe C 2:26
That's fine. I am definitely more of the listener in a relationship than us than the talker. So...
Zoe Davey 2:32
Well, it's your turn to have the spotlight put on you. I don't know how you feel about that. Try well, for anybody who doesn't know Chloe, she is a mural artist and general creative person, I will link her stuff on her website, because it looks amazing. My favorite piece, I think that you've done, I've written it down here so I didn't forget was the Downtown Box. Like it's a huge side of the building with the birds in it, and they're like the Heron, yep. It's amazing. That's really nice colors. And that's the picture that I'm going to put in there.
Chloe C 3:10
A little segue into question one. Then, fantastic.
Zoe Davey 3:15
I didn't even plan that. That's perfect. Let's what is question one. Question one is, what's your favourite project you've ever worked on? And why?
Chloe C 3:23
Oh, my goodness, crazy. Yeah. So Twilight, that one was called, and it's actually the biggest project that I've done to date. And funnily enough, it was only my second ever mural. So I used to work a nonprofit in downtown Dayton, and I just completed the first one. They just kind of said, Hey, did anybody want to do this mural? Nobody really wanted to paint it. The design had made. So it was already like, ready to go. And I was like, I'll do it.
Zoe Davey 3:59
That's the dream, there, right?
Chloe C 4:01
Like, you're pretty good at this. I'm like, thank you. Like, any other opportunities that you've got, like, thrown my way, I'd absolutely love that. Definitely no money. This was, this was before. This was definitely getting my experience. Yeah. So yeah, the owner just approached me one day, and she was like, Hey, we're going to be doing a really big project. Would you like to be the lead muralist? And like, no hesitation. I was just like, let's go. And then she kind of proceeded to, you know, go. Just explain a little bit more about what that would all entail. It was actually a program with the Montgomery County Juvenile court system. So they it's juvie kids, you know, just under 18, kids who have, you know, maybe kind of done something they shouldn't have. They're in bad situations. It was one of them. Most like humbling things I've ever done. So they have a project called the halo project, which is helping adolescents achieve long term objectives. So it just gave these kids, you know, something to do that kept them out of trouble. A lot of them were, like, really, really good artists, and they just, you know, I'm so happy that they finally had something where they could be themselves. It was a little bit scary. I'm not gonna lie, I had a couple of like, 18, 17 year olds who were like, I'm a run. I'm a run every day. And I'm like, please don't run. I've got so much of the stuff that I have to do with this, but it was such an eye opener. I was the lead muralist on that one, so I kind of really got to understand, like, the inner workings of it all, you know, like, I didn't get too much into the budget side of things, but just kind of like all the working parts and everything that it takes to make something like that go and I just, I loved it. I loved being able to orchestrate stuff, you know, getting out there doing actual work. The design was actually done by a local, famous artist called gay Hilton. So I was just like, super stoked to be doing her work, getting it all done. It was, it was really good. It really could, really cool, really good, really cool.
Zoe Davey 6:34
You can see it on your website, and that that side of the building is absolutely massive as well. I think you've got, like, a panel over there and before and after.
I didn't know that they had been painting it with you as well. That's amazing. Like, I mean, to throw you in at the deep end, like, obviously you said yes, not only that, you you're also in charge of these people, making sure that they like, on task, doing their thing. And you nailed it anyway. No wonder it's your favourite.
Chloe C 6:53
It was definitely stressful. It was literal blood, sweat and tears shed mostly, I was hoping, like heavy equipment and stuff. Yeah, it was a it was one of the most cool learning experiences, as stressful as it was, and lots of egos and personalities and stuff, it was none of that mattered. Like, the moment I had done that, every all the kids were only helping on, like, kind of, like, the block colours and stuff, I just remember there was a little bit of lettering in the bottom left corner, and that was, like, the last thing I was doing. And like, it's so crazy. Like, you start something that's so daunting, and then, like, you have that final brush stroke, and then you're like, Oh, I'm doing it so weird, all of that, all of that stress, and I finally just finished, and you're like, oh, oh, it's happened. I did it.
Zoe Davey 7:57
It was so good. So, yeah, no, that's an amazing answer. Thank you so much. If this doesn't record, because this is our first time doing this. If this doesn't record, I'll just cry, because that was a wonderful answer, and people need to hear that, because I think it's it's really inspiring to hear the joy that comes out of doing things that aren't necessarily always broadcasted as like, job type. Isn't easy.
Chloe C 8:26
I mean, there's a couple of things, ;) but...
-dog barks - sorry, just making sure the dog was fed.
Zoe Davey 8:36
Important things in life.
Chloe C 8:38
...is that, yeah, no, I just You just gotta keep going. Just gotta keep pushing. It's really cool, even when things are hard, like, I guess this,
Zoe Davey 8:52
Maybe then after we piggyback and we go on to Question three, because that would be a perfect segue. It's, How do you push through on a hard day? Okay? And then we can go back, unless you want to do question two?
Chloe C 9:05
What is Question three?
Zoe Davey 9:10
Question three is, how do you push through on a hard day when the going gets tough? What? What are your ways of pushing through?
Chloe C 9:18
Um, so David actually has this quote that he says all the time, and it's really and I want to say this right? I'm going to try and say it, and then I'm going to make sure it's right. What is it? Leave nothing for tomorrow, which leave nothing for tomorrow, which can be done today. Abraham Lincoln, oh, we like that. And I really hold it like quite close to my heart, honestly, as I continue to, like do this and start to, you know, get deeper into this, I'm a solo artist. I. Uh, the work comes out of my hands. Like, yes, there's times where I have assistance and they can do, you know, block colouring and stuff like that. But whatever I don't do today, if I want to be lazy today, I'm going to pay for that tomorrow. Yeah, I and it can really start to become a knock on effect, and that really affects me with burnout. So, yeah, I I am. It's kind of funny, like, I do feel like quite a lazy girl at heart, and it is hard to kind of push through sometimes when all you want to do is just go home and just, like, watch something on Netflix. But I just, I just know that if I don't do it today, it's tomorrow's problem, and then that will be the next day's problem. And it kind of like weirdly pushes me to keep going. It just makes me do that extra, you know, that extra 20 minutes that tomorrow, you know, and 20 minutes every single day you've lost another hour. And then, you know, that's that Friday feeling when I want to actually go home. I've kind of been through that. So I guess it's all about just trying to find the balance, listening, obviously, to your body. And I guess this does actually kind of go into like question four as well. Yes, yes, like that. I'm getting older. My body is not getting younger. I'm trying to get fitter right now. I'm trying to be better about listening to my body, but it really has been a game changer, especially for women. Following your cycle, I think is one of the most important things that you can do, because me, in my luteal phase, all I want to do is scream and cry. I don't want to be understanding to be I don't want to be dealing with bugs. I don't want to, you know, think no matter what industry you're in, I definitely think women should do that, because we are absolutely beating ourselves raw trying to keep up with men who have cortisol levels that get reset every 24 hours. We're just different creatures. And I just, I wish that every woman would give themselves the grace that I'm a bit of a hypocrite. I don't always do this. I sometimes have headlines, you know, I sometimes have to push a little bit harder. But if I could preach from the mountain tops, listen to your body. Listen to when you need rest, listen to what hurts and what you can do. You know it's like, oh yes, self care. It's just some face masks that's put some conditioning treatment on our hair. It's so much deeper than that. It's listening then checking in with yourself. Every single day, I find myself often, and more often than not, like, in a bad mood and trying to figure out the the core of that is it my body saying, oh, I need, I need to rest. Oh, my body's like, irritated, like, everything that you need is within you. I feel like, and maybe I sound like a crazy, crazy lady at this point, but like
Zoe Davey 13:01
I'll join you!
Chloe C 13:03
Your body knows what it needs. And I am really trying to, like, yesterday, it we had tornado warnings yesterday, and it was crazy. And I just said, okay, my body needs to rest. And I even joke about it. It's my forced relaxation. I sit there, and I will make myself just sit there, and it's like, I just wait for my body to, like, soak in and just appreciate it. I also think there's a lot of like, good with like, meditation and all that kind of stuff as well. But that's a whole 'nother. That's a whole 'nother conversation. I like it, though. Just take care of is that so obviously, yourself, learn how to listen to your body and then actually listen to your body, and then actually do the things that your body kind of needs you to do before everybody else who's up at 5am and doing this and drinking this and doing everything that's so good like Do what makes you happy? Sometimes I'm barely surviving, so
Zoe Davey 14:04
We're just doing our best.
Perfect. Well, what was, Oh, we're going back to two then what were the biggest challenges you faced on that project? So we kind of covered them going back to the first mural project. But what was the biggest challenge for you? Do you think
Chloe C 14:24
Bugs.
Zoe Davey 14:28
Bugs?!
Chloe C 14:30
So many bugs. There's so many spiders, outdoors, outdoors, flying creatures and like, I don't really care for them, but it was just constantly. No, that was that was definitely not ideal, obviously painted in summer, when the lights come on at night, it's
Zoe Davey 14:58
Oh,my God. I. Had not even considered that that's wild. I did paint outside for pretty much the first time with acrylics the other day, and there were a few, but I imagine over there, it is a little bit Wilder.
Chloe C 15:13
I was led over to America. Was not informed about them - horrendous.
Zoe Davey 15:18
God damn it, David, you didn't inform her?
Amazing. What made you say yes to the first mural or creative or creative opportunity that you did? What made you say yeah?
Chloe C 15:33
Can I swear?
Zoe Davey 15:34
Yeah.
Chloe C 15:34
Why the fuck not? Yeah?
Zoe Davey 15:38
I agree.
Chloe C 15:39
I just, I'm, at that point in life, like I'm a take opportunities. I, you know, we get presented with these weird and wild things every day, and some of them can feel scary. Some of them, one right now, yeah, like this is literally to be on podcasts and stuff. And I'm just like, I am not.
Zoe Davey 16:03
Well, you clearly are. You're doing some great answers.
Chloe C 16:08
And if I can do something that benefits other people as well, but women like, it's kind of funny around here late. I mean, there's, there's a lot of artists who have a lot of egos, and that's like a global thing, but just trying to find people who have, like, similar mindsets, and just, we all got to eat. We all want to eat. Why can't we all eat? You know, it's like, I really want to support everybody, and it doesn't have to be like, this petty thing and like so just fucking vibe, and we all have different skill sets. Let's come together.
Zoe Davey 16:44
-sings- Yes, collaborate and listen.
Chloe C 16:49
Yes. Why not?
Zoe Davey 16:54
Indeed.
Number six, we're firing through these. I'm going to check what time we're on. What time are we on? It doesn't tell you we're in the zone. Excellent. What? Where's my I can't read number six. What do you-This is my favorite little question that came up with- what do you think little you as in, like you as I don't know, maybe like 6, 7, 8, would say about the work you do now?
Chloe C 17:22
You know, I got a little bit like, when I read your questions, I like, a little bit teared. I thought that one, oh, I think she'd just be really happy that she's doing something that's just me. You know, I just feel like we all again, we take these opportunities in life. And I got to a point, you know, had my fancy corporate job, everything was good, but I just wasn't happy. I just wasn't where I thought I wanted to be in life, and I didn't know where I wanted to be. I spent my life just thinking I'd be kind of a bit of just a floater. I've never really had like a secure friendship group. I've got my family and stuff, but I've just always been a bit of a lone wolf, so I knew that whatever I did do, I needed that to kind of fill that little bit that I always felt safe, and I've always felt safe when I'm on my own, because I only have to worry about myself, and that's clearly some therapist talk.
Zoe Davey 18:25
I'll make a note of that one down for you.
Chloe C 18:31
I think she'd be really proud. I didn't, I didn't even know I would live this long. Yeah, think I'd make it, and I keep seeing milestones, and it's it's really cool, and I keep pushing, and I keep making cool stuff, and I keep doing cool stuff, so better not stop now.
Zoe Davey 18:53
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being really honest with that answer. You could have just said anything, and you gave me your heart.
Chloe C 19:00
And that was because you said it my whole body -visibly wiping tears-
Zoe Davey 19:05
Well, that's how you know it's true. That's how you know it's the good stuff. Yeah. So what do you wish more people knew about the process behind your work?
Chloe C 19:19
Everything?
Just just the care, attention, love, devotion, that I will put into what I do, like I don't. There's not many things unless, like, you're a real prick to me. I'm going to give you my everything. Like you really have to, like, be an asshole to me, for me to, like, start not giving you my fault. Yeah. Wait, what was the question again, my brain just...
Zoe Davey 19:50
I think the question was, what do you wish people knew? Yeah, what do you wish more about the process behind it?
Chloe C 19:56
Yeah, just the work that goes in behind. Scenes, the admin, the putting in every single receipt that I've ever spent on any kind of pain, figuring out how to be a business owner, because this is my first year full time. I still don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm figuring it out every day, and...
Zoe Davey 20:21
...clearly something's working.
Chloe C 20:24
I just wish people would give me the support and appreciate artists and the time and effort that does go in, because I will forever wear mug across my forehead. If I could do everything for free, I would, yeah.
Zoe Davey 20:38
But we can't. We can't eat that way.
Chloe C 20:42
I could do this, like, just as a philanthropy thing, that would be awesome. Maybe one day, that is where, maybe one day, because I hate talking about money, but we gotta eat.
Zoe Davey 20:53
We have to eat, we have to pay for houses. We have to put clothes on our bags because we get arrested otherwise, you know?
Chloe C 21:00
Yeah, I guess that's the thing. A lot of people come to me and go, Well, I could do that. And I'm like, Well, go on. And then, well, you know, the cost of this, the cost of that, the cost of that, they can't seem to think of all the things like I, I was painting a mural, what, three days ago, and a guy came over. He was a general contractor, and I had four brushes laying on the floor. He was like, why have you got $200 just spilled out on the floor like that? And I went, Oh, you actually understand the value of things.
Zoe Davey 21:36
That's really cool, my friend, I saw something in my friend's story the other day that was like someone had asked, like, oh, you're a photographer. Do you just do that for fun or whatever? And then it was like, No, I just go to places with 300 300 Wait, 3000 pounds worth of equipment just hanging off me and try and make friends with toddlers for fun. No, of course, it's my job. But yeah, it's like when someone realizes how either how much time something takes, how much something costs, or how much effort and understanding and trial and error, how many times you failed before you got to that point when they recognize that, oh, that's a good day. That's a nice day. That's almost better than a pat on the back. It's a I see, I see what's going on here.
Chloe C 22:26
I do. I mean, like, when I do my abstract stuff, a lot of people, that's where you really start to get the oh, well, I could do that.
Zoe Davey 22:33
Like, what the pain pouring thing, it looks amazing?!
Chloe C 22:36
Just abstract work in general. Like, yeah, sometimes stuff only does take me two hours, and, yeah, charge you $1,000 for it, because that's how many times before, years and years and years learning all these different things to get me to that point. And it's just like anything. I just wished artists were kind of treated like general contractors. That's kind of where I feel in the same vein, yeah, yeah.
Zoe Davey 23:05
Never questioned a plumber. Never questioned a plumber in my life.
Chloe C 23:09
Weird, isn't it? I can't believe we've made
Zoe Davey 23:12
It has come to the last question, but we have, is there a moment in your creative journey that changed everything for you.
Chloe C 23:23
I was thinking about really, like trying to think of like something profound,
Zoe Davey 23:32
It's okay, if there's nothing.
Chloe C 23:35
I think it's kind of been like a slow burn more than anything. Yeah, I feel like every single little thing that I've done, I mean, I will say that working at the nonprofit, opened up a lot of doors, met a couple of people. I mean, yeah, just definitely, just through the years, just kind of, you know, building it up, building it, building it up. And like, now I'm at a point where, like, I'll go on Facebook every day and somebody's tagged me about a project, and like, I feel like just getting that reputation. And, yeah, you know, it's, I could lose that reputation in one day. I could do something, say something like, you know, cancel culture, like, and as a 90s baby, it can, it can be hard sometimes to find, like, where the wokeness is, and like what I can and can't say. I feel like, since moving to America, I was kind of given a, like, a bit of a second chance. I got to become the person that I know I am without all the past and everybody else's opinions and all that kind of stuff, you know, and it made me realize that I am a good person, and I want to do good in the world. And since that really it's just motivated me to want to do more. And I think within. Motivation comes that, you know, just it tumble. It's a big Tumbleweed of feelings and emotions to it.
Zoe Davey 25:11
Doesn't have to be a movie moment right?
Chloe C 25:13
Sometimes, on and on and on, little meet cute, where everything just kind of went. You're a magical artist.
Zoe Davey 25:21
It's now, like, congratulations, but like, it's today, you're a magical artist.
Chloe C 25:26
Now, I feel like I've worked really hard over the like, I mean, I went to art school, I did all that good.
Zoe Davey 25:36
You did.
Chloe C 25:38
Everything has just come out to this point where it was supposed to be. And again, I'm floating in a random country, in a random town, and my name's on buildings, and it's just, it's bizarre, but amazing. So yeah, definitely no magic firework moment, just a nice little slow Ember that's growing, and I hope it just keeps growing, because we should I want this to go to glow, glow forever with a because you're glowing right now, because this is so bright, the sun's just come out for the first time.
Zoe Davey 26:15
Oh my gosh. Um, thank you. Thank you. That's not going to cover it. It's not going to cover it. It's it because, like, you need the people in your life who take a chance, and you take a chance of me all the time, so and now you're doing this for me. A special wish that this recorded properly. Wish with me. Ready? Please, please, please. -Chloe wishes, fingers crossed, on camera-. And then I had the little thing pop up that was like, You need to upgrade if you want to do 10 more minutes worth of speaking. I was like, I think the takeaways from this will be so lovely, because you've been so honest and so just full of joy about it all. And I think that shines through at the end of the day, even though things get really rough and like life is trying. Like, the thing that keeps shining through is that you love doing this stuff, and you love making beautiful things for people. And like, if you can keep doing that, then you're gonna pretty happy be
Chloe C 27:17
I wanna, I want people to smile. Like, I mean, somebody almost crashed the car yesterday, and a policeman went like the wrong way yesterday, just because they're looking at my work and I that's one thing of a town where I don't think people understand general laws, but that's okay.
Zoe Davey 27:39
I mean, that's a high compliment
Chloe C 27:41
Oh God, Ohio now.
Zoe Davey 27:44
So I think we'll carry on. Go, go.
Chloe C 27:50
You inspire me again. The fact that you you have shown that you know, just because it doesn't always go the way you want it to the first time. Like tenacity, Zoe is it's all inspiring. It really we're doing this. Like, I just, we all have like things that we can, like, look up to, and like, just, I don't know, I love your style. I love how you can just bash it out and not overthink stuff, like everything that like, I wished I could do, like you just do it. You don't worry. You just do how do
Zoe Davey 28:28
Oh how do you a how do you know I don't worry? You interview me one day. I'll tell you!
Chloe C 28:34
You finished a painting. Zoe,
Zoe Davey 28:37
Oh, that is true.
Chloe C 28:38
I have ones, but I can finish them.
Zoe Davey 28:41
But I'll get on you after we finish this, this interview, in a second, I'll harass you about finishing some art. How about that?
Chloe C 28:47
Yeah, I mean, I'm getting my studio space set up right now, so I'm kind of, I can't wait to see that journey and where that all goes and my canvases have gone so like that's happening in the next you fully, fully talked, amazing, right?
Zoe Davey 29:04
Where can people find you if they don't know who you are or they don't already follow you?
Chloe C 29:08
They can find me on Facebook, on Instagram and Chloe Chicarelli Instagram at, just at, it's just because I sometimes put stuff on Tiktok. I am not the biggest social media girl.
Zoe Davey 29:25
Want to we'll get there. You're a great example of someone who is bossing it without having to completely follow the norm. So that's okay. If there's people out there who are like, I don't know it, you're in that boat too, and you're still smashing it.
Chloe C 29:41
So okay, as the ex social media manager, I don't want to, I don't want to be there. And if you mural, I am International, you can go on my website, submit request, www.chloechicarelli.com,
Zoe Davey 29:57
Oh my gosh. I want to see where this leads. I'm very curious. Trying to edit like that. All right, we're gonna end it now. Thank you for listening to everyone. Bye.
Thank you so much for reading.
This interview will always hold a special place in my heart.
and what we can learn from them.
Before we start - I'll let you know I'm not about to start laying into commissions I've done in the past for anyone else.
There have been some I have not been happy with - especially in the early days.
I did not have as much experience and I was trying my best - so I'm letting bygones be bygones.
I learnt a lot from those about managing expectations, not rushing and that it would have been totally ok to start again!
I don't think there is much kindness in making fun of past work when it's the best you could do at the time. You never know who is reading or watching and comparing. These 5 are all from my Inktober challenges - where you do a piece a day to a prompt. I didn't have the time to fix them or always properly plan which had some... interesting results!
These are my 5 worst 'posts' on Instagram that I still to this day - cringe a little to look at.
Ok - that is dramatic.
I'll be offering positives, constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement.
There have been some I have not been happy with - especially in the early days.
I did not have as much experience and I was trying my best - so I'm letting bygones be bygones.
I learnt a lot from those about managing expectations, not rushing and that it would have been totally ok to start again!
I don't think there is much kindness in making fun of past work when it's the best you could do at the time. You never know who is reading or watching and comparing. These 5 are all from my Inktober challenges - where you do a piece a day to a prompt. I didn't have the time to fix them or always properly plan which had some... interesting results!
These are my 5 worst 'posts' on Instagram that I still to this day - cringe a little to look at.
Ok - that is dramatic.
I'll be offering positives, constructive criticism and suggestions for improvement.
No. 1 - 'Thorly Out of Proportion'
Here we have the mighty God of thunder - except he's a bit out of proportion and lacking the drama he deserves!
The Positives
- Nice use of colour
- Concept is pretty cool!
- I now have Thunderstruck by ACDC in my head and you do too.
Constructive Criticism
- Needs more depth with light and shadow
- More attention to detail on body proportions
Suggestions
- Redraw with a larger torso and hands in proportion
- Add more shadow and light to the clouds
- Perhaps as an acrylic this would reach the level of drama needed of a Greek God!
- Nice use of colour
- Concept is pretty cool!
- I now have Thunderstruck by ACDC in my head and you do too.
Constructive Criticism
- Needs more depth with light and shadow
- More attention to detail on body proportions
Suggestions
- Redraw with a larger torso and hands in proportion
- Add more shadow and light to the clouds
- Perhaps as an acrylic this would reach the level of drama needed of a Greek God!
No.2 'Strange Things going on'
It's 2019 - we're all deep into Stranger Things obsession.
The Positives
- Cool screenshot reference to use, I remember going digging through episodes
- I like the texture detail on his hair
- At first glance it's pretty cool
Constructive Criticism
- It's missing structure in Lucas's face making him a bit too 2D
- That hand is wayyy too small on the left
Suggestions
- Draw it bigger to get that detail! I remember them all being in an A4 sketchbook
- Fix those hands with size reference
- Do some warm up practice on Lucas's facial structure
- Cool screenshot reference to use, I remember going digging through episodes
- I like the texture detail on his hair
- At first glance it's pretty cool
Constructive Criticism
- It's missing structure in Lucas's face making him a bit too 2D
- That hand is wayyy too small on the left
Suggestions
- Draw it bigger to get that detail! I remember them all being in an A4 sketchbook
- Fix those hands with size reference
- Do some warm up practice on Lucas's facial structure
No. 3 'She's furious you didn't try again!'
Firstly, why does this feel exactly the same as the previous?! Let's see if the P, CC and S are the same.
I also think I was on tour doing these and on an absolute schedule. So kudos for finishing!
I also think I was on tour doing these and on an absolute schedule. So kudos for finishing!
The Positives
- Nice colour scheme - very Mad Max
- I like the effort on the arm structure
- Textures on the body are pretty cool
Constructive Criticism
- Even at this point I know I rushed that hand.
- Unclear structure to Furiosa's outfit
- Face needs more study
Suggestions
- I think this was A5 so - you guessed it - draw it bigger!
- Sketch out a shape plan for the top and harness
- Use a ruler for the gun to make it pop!
- Nice colour scheme - very Mad Max
- I like the effort on the arm structure
- Textures on the body are pretty cool
Constructive Criticism
- Even at this point I know I rushed that hand.
- Unclear structure to Furiosa's outfit
- Face needs more study
Suggestions
- I think this was A5 so - you guessed it - draw it bigger!
- Sketch out a shape plan for the top and harness
- Use a ruler for the gun to make it pop!
No.4 'Not Dave Grohl'.
No, this is not a skew-wiff Dave Ghrol. I have been asked.
The Positives
- Good shadows and lights
- I like the hair on the edges
- I like the eyes too - when I look at them as a section they look pretty well proportioned
Constructive Criticism
- I know for a fact that the reference photo I used that man had a different lower facial structure
- Hands - alas
Suggestions
- Do some practice sketches to loosen up and explore his face shape beneath the hair
- The hand needs more definition from the face with shadows
- Draw out a map for the whole sketch first
- Good shadows and lights
- I like the hair on the edges
- I like the eyes too - when I look at them as a section they look pretty well proportioned
Constructive Criticism
- I know for a fact that the reference photo I used that man had a different lower facial structure
- Hands - alas
Suggestions
- Do some practice sketches to loosen up and explore his face shape beneath the hair
- The hand needs more definition from the face with shadows
- Draw out a map for the whole sketch first
No.5 'Hulkin' Out'.
A decent attempt was made but there's something going on here!
The Positives
- It's obviously the Hulk!
- I like the texture on the trousers
- Right hand is actually pretty good!
Constructive Criticism
- Not enough shadow and light
- Face falls flat
- Surface beneath needs to be straighter to give him a grounding
Suggestions
- Zoom in - pick a more dynamic pose
- Use a ruler for the base
- I think this is one for colour - taking away his green is weird!
- It's obviously the Hulk!
- I like the texture on the trousers
- Right hand is actually pretty good!
Constructive Criticism
- Not enough shadow and light
- Face falls flat
- Surface beneath needs to be straighter to give him a grounding
Suggestions
- Zoom in - pick a more dynamic pose
- Use a ruler for the base
- I think this is one for colour - taking away his green is weird!
Conclusion
People need time when we are drawing them!
Inktober is super fun but a lot of pressure creating and posting drawings every day.
I can see how much I have improved since this time in the way I can constructively criticize and offer suggestions for improvement. Constant practice is the best way forwards. The changes are incremental but over time they really make a difference!
Inktober is super fun but a lot of pressure creating and posting drawings every day.
I can see how much I have improved since this time in the way I can constructively criticize and offer suggestions for improvement. Constant practice is the best way forwards. The changes are incremental but over time they really make a difference!
You can watch my older videos and a full review of 2019 and 2018 on my channel
I have yet to decide if I'll try it again this October.
Should I give it a go?
I'm making new video content again - I'd love to see you there!
Remember to click
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it really helps me out.
Thank you.
Thank you.
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